Clear or NOT? WHY?

Eagle4ty

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Title Query
It looks as if the LOS string does not have the brown Level 2 colors visible on both sides of the string, therefore the LOS is Open. As per B11.2 the serrated edge of the cliff would only exist at Level 1 (I believe) or possibly level 0, and neither of these levels would create a blind hex(es) on a shot from/to level 0 and level 3 as depicted. Now if the LOS string had indeed crossed the Level 2 hill depiction the LOS would be blocked as there would be 2 blind hexes in either direction. {2*height of obstacle, + Rng/5 (FRD), - Height of firer, + 1 = Nbr of blind hexes for all LOS calculations other than non-cliff crest line LOS}.
 

hongkongwargamer

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It's a Level 2 Hill, so I think it casts two blind hexes, since it is a cliff hexside. NRBH.
Isn't @Eagle4ty saying that since the LOS only cross the serrated edge of the cliff and not the actual elevation color, it doesn't pose a 2 lvl obstruction to LOS?

B11.2 The serrated edge of a cliff is no more of an obstacle to LOS traced along that hexside than the elevation level it separates from the higher hill hex. For LOS purposes, the black art depiction of a Depression cliff is treated as part of the Depression artwork.
 

Justiciar

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But the LOS in this case is not traced "along that hex side" (along here means to match the hex side grid, like LOS R6 to S8) rather it cuts across that hex side...entering via R7 and exiting via S8. Or that is how I read the intention of "along" in the sense of matching....
 

Larry

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B11.2:

For LOS purposes, the black art depiction of a Depression cliff is treated as part of the Depression artwork.
The black art is not level 2.
 

klasmalmstrom

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IIRC, there is a Q&A that says this LOS is blocked, but I don’t have access to it now.
 

Eagle4ty

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That quote is for a cliff in a depression hex. Not a cliff on a hill.
Not Quite (I realize you may not have had access to an ASLRB at the moment) as the EX for B11.2 shows a LOS at ground level (0) along a Cliff from level 2 (I believe; could be a level 1 hill). Justicar does have a point it the LOS is traced along a hexside, but the rule clears that misconception up by stating the entire serrated cliff depiction exists at a lower elevation and not just the hexside.
 

jrv

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Not Quite (I realize you may not have had access to an ASLRB at the moment) as the EX for B11.2 shows a LOS at ground level (0) along a Cliff from level 2 (I believe; could be a level 1 hill). Justicar does have a point it the LOS is traced along a hexside, but the rule clears that misconception up by stating the entire serrated cliff depiction exists at a lower elevation and not just the hexside.
The rule & EX do not say that. It says that the LOS right down the hexside is clear. It also says that for a depression cliff the cliff depiction is at the lower level. This q&a makes the case for a crestline cliff clear:

B11.2 Is the “serrated edge of a (non-Depression) cliff” an obstacle to LOS if not traced along a hexside?
A. IN the higher-level hex, the “serrated edge” is at the higher level; in the lower-level hex, the “serrated edge” is at the lower level. [Letter252]
As crestline and cliff are not inherent, LOS exactly down a cliff hexside is not blocked because there isn't blocking terrain on both sides.

JR
 
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Eagle4ty

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The rule & EX do not say that. It says that the LOS right down the hexside is clear. It also says that for a depression cliff the cliff depiction is at the lower level. This q&a makes the case for a crestline cliff clear:



As crestline and cliff are not inherent, LOS exactly down a cliff hexside is not blocked because there isn't blocking terrain on both sides.

JR
Thanks, missed the Romanowski Q&A.
 

Russ Isaia

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Not Quite (I realize you may not have had access to an ASLRB at the moment) as the EX for B11.2 shows a LOS at ground level (0) along a Cliff from level 2 (I believe; could be a level 1 hill). Justicar does have a point it the LOS is traced along a hexside, but the rule clears that misconception up by stating the entire serrated cliff depiction exists at a lower elevation and not just the hexside.
Dang, JR beat me to it! Here is the RB analysis basis (I think) for the Q&A.

The LOS is being blocked in this instance not by the serrated edge of the cliff but by the level 2 hill printed beneath the cliff. B11.1: "Hill hexsides overprinting a darker, serrated, brownish-black color are cliff hexsides." So the level 2 hill terrain is still in S7, to the hexside, it's just not obvious under the string due to the overprinting.
 

Russ Isaia

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The LOS does not run "along" a cliff hexside but crosses it repeatedly so the cliffs add nothing. You have a level 3 unit trying to view a level 0 unit, with later in the second hex beyond a 2 level obstacle. No LOS due to the blind hexes created by the intervening obstacle.

Yes?
 

STAVKA

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LOS is clear, the black cliff artwork never block LOS since it is not an Obstacle.
This issue was resolved over 30 years ago.
 
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STAVKA

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The rule & EX do not say that. It says that the LOS right down the hexside is clear. It also says that for a depression cliff the cliff depiction is at the lower level. This q&a makes the case for a crestline cliff clear:



As crestline and cliff are not inherent, LOS exactly down a cliff hexside is not blocked because there isn't blocking terrain on both sides.

JR
The rule neither claims LOS "right down the hexside" nor "exactly down the hexside" , it simple state that LOS traced along that hexside is no Obstacle (i.e., partial along the hexside or exactly along the hexside means the same). Think you base your wrong assumptions on that example. Common sense must prevail (B.1).
 

jrv

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LOS is clear, the black cliff artwork never block LOS since it is not an Obstacle.
This issue was resolved over 30 years ago.
You do not use q&a? The q&a says, "IN the higher-level hex, the “serrated edge” is at the higher level; in the lower-level hex, the “serrated edge” is at the lower level". If you use q&a, it is clear what you say is wrong. It is true that cliff artwork in a depression is at the lower level, per B11.2. Do you have an alternate q&a saying what you assert?

JR
 

STAVKA

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That is not
But the LOS in this case is not traced "along that hex side" (along here means to match the hex side grid, like LOS R6 to S8) rather it cuts across that hex side...entering via R7 and exiting via S8. Or that is how I read the intention of "along" in the sense of matching....
That is not a reasonable meaning of what "along" means, otherwise the rule should have been written that the LOS is blocked unless the LOS goes exactly along the Cliff beside.
 
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