China trade war

zgrose

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"The trade war will end when China eventually and inevitably caves. China needs America far, far more than America needs China. China has been harming America for 30 years, and we finally have a president willing to do something about it.

— John Carter"

I see this a lot. I don't think it is a defensible position. Anyone care to debate John Carter's position?
 

zgrose

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I phrased that poorly. Does anyone want to take up a defense of his position?
 

TopT

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I phrased that poorly. Does anyone want to take up a defense of his position?
No. He's just painting a picture of the world he wants to see.

China will be hurt by the tariffs and all but so will we. Are we (Govt.) going to pay the farmers forever? They have probably lost markets for a long time with no other markets available to replace them. US companies might leave China but they will just move to India or Vietnam, they are not coming back to the US.

tRUMP ordering the businesses to buy from another market will not work as something for everything is made in China. I agree that we must do something to stop China's aggression, in it's economic form, but we would have been in a much better position if we had gotten the EU to join us. That is never going to happen as tRUMP has destroyed any thought of help from that direction.
 

Mister T

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Slightly OT, but here is this nugget from a very recent speech from President Macron:
(machine translation from FR)

We are probably experiencing the end of Western hegemony over the world. We had become accustomed to an international order that since the 18th century had been based on Western hegemony, probably French in the 18th century, by the inspiration of the Enlightenment; probably British in the 19th century thanks to the industrial revolution and reasonably American in the 20th century thanks to the 2 great conflicts and the economic and political domination of this power. Things are changing. And they are deeply shaken by the mistakes of Westerners in certain crises, by the choices made by Americans over the past few years, which did not begin with this administration but which have led to a rethinking of certain implications in conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to a rethinking of a diplomatic and military strategy, and sometimes of elements of solidarity that we thought were intangible for eternity. And then it is also the emergence of new powers whose impact we have undoubtedly underestimated for a long time.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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If the jobs are not coming back to the US, then the war is seeming to be fought on the grounds of helping American corporations and their non-Chinese foreign factories.

In short, for money that is simply going to the top of the pyramid, and then trickles down in only the smallest amounts.
 

Paul M. Weir

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If the jobs are not coming back to the US, then the war is seeming to be fought on the grounds of helping American corporations and their non-Chinese foreign factories.

In short, for money that is simply going to the top of the pyramid, and then trickles down in only the smallest amounts.
Here I have to disagree. I see the main impetus as simply the temper tantrum of failed casino owner who is ignorantly rooted in 18th-19th Century economic theory. While in many areas like nativism and racism Spanky is just the suppurating pustule marking the peak of his supporters inhumanity, Spanky is way, way ahead of the pack on this. Most of the capitalists are horrified at the damage it will do to their profits. The reason is simple - Spanky is a moron.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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Here I have to disagree. I see the main impetus as simply the temper tantrum of failed casino owner who is ignorantly rooted in 18th-19th Century economic theory. While in many areas like nativism and racism Spanky is just the suppurating pustule marking the peak of his supporters inhumanity, Spanky is way, way ahead of the pack on this. Most of the capitalists are horrified at the damage it will do to their profits. The reason is simple - Spanky is a moron.
What's interesting is the GOP and conservatives fought tariffs and promoted free trade 20, 30, 40 years ago when manufacturing was still in the US. To assist US manufacturing back then would be to assist unions however - and conservatives HATE unions.

Now that unions are out of the way, and there is no hope in hell of US jobs coming back to the US, NOW the GOP/conservatives are for tariffs. All a big game to help the wealthy and powerful in ways like, apparently, intellectual property rights... nothing that helps the average person.
 
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