Chess clocks at ASL tournaments, feasibility, thoughts, experience

Actionjick

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Not a LOT of experience, but enough to have tried it a few times with folks that did and did not like the clock.
How many battles does it take to make someone a veteran?๐Ÿค”
 

Jazz

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How many battles does it take to make someone a veteran?๐Ÿค”
<shrug> WTF knows?

Played 3-4 attempted games with slow players.

Played 8-9 games with faster players. If I had more regular opponents it probably would have happened more often.

The overhead to set up turns what would be a beer&pretzels scenario into more of a production which is not quite so casual.
 

Robin Reeve

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One could use a clock, not to set a limited time to the players, but to show the proportion of time used by each one.
So, if one player uses disproportionate time, he could be penalised if a referee must decide who won the scenario when the time limit fixed by the tournament's conditions is reached.
 

Actionjick

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<shrug> WTF knows?

Played 3-4 attempted games with slow players.

Played 8-9 games with faster players. If I had more regular opponents it probably would have happened more often.

The overhead to set up turns what would be a beer&pretzels scenario into more of a production which is not quite so casual.
Agreed. I could see it adding another fun dimension to the game between two fast players, much like speed chess. Doesn't seem that necessary for beer and pretzels ( or wine and cheese ๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค— ) play.
 

Actionjick

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One could use a clock, not to set a limited time to the players, but to show the proportion of time used by each one.
So, if one player uses disproportionate time, he could be penalised if a referee must decide who won the scenario when the time limit fixed by the tournament's conditions is reached.
Interesting thought.๐Ÿค”
 

Bill Kohler

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I agree with your observation that clocks would not speed up the play of slow players. Not only would it probably stress them out it might actually slow down their play.
There's a built-in game approach that might work: lower both players' SANs by one (to a minimum of two), then at the end of every ten minutes you use, your opponent rolls a Sniper attack dr.

(I too get frustrated when playing slow opponents, but on the other hand I want those I play with to enjoy the game too. It's worst when playing those who appear totally oblivious as to the time they're taking, and more especially if they're clearly ahead. Then again there are other annoying habits that sap the fun out of a game: those who give you constant advice, those who rule-check everything, those who eat Doritos while playing with your kit. But people are people, and most everything beats hunkering alone in a room during Covid. And I must also mention that I've played games with many people who are a joy to play against--many people.)
 
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Actionjick

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There's a built-in game approach that might work: lower both players' SANs by one (to a minimum of two), then at the end of every ten minutes you use, your opponent rolls a Sniper attack dr.

(I too get frustrated when playing slow opponents, but on the other hand I want those I play with to enjoy the game too. It's worst when playing those who appear totally oblivious as to the time they're taking, and more especially if they're clearly ahead. Then again there are other annoying habits that sap the fun out of a game: those who give you constant advice, those who rule-check everything, those who eat Doritos while playing with your kit. But people are people, and most everything beats hunkering alone in a room during Covid. And I must also mention that I've played games with many people who are a joy to play against--many people.)
Doritos bad. Cheetos horrendously bad. Love them both. Didn't really eat while gunnin, lots of coffee though.

SAN idea is interesting. Will discuss it with Captain Bacchus tonight. ๐Ÿค”๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿคช
 

MajorDomo

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My experience is that the attacker takes more time in ASL, unlike chess.

Also, as already expressed here, the slower players will refuse to use clocks, which defeats the purpose.

It is a dilemma as slow play is increasing and the reward is that you play better if you take more time before moving each counter.
 

Actionjick

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My experience is that the attacker takes more time in ASL, unlike chess.

Also, as already expressed here, the slower players will refuse to use clocks, which defeats the purpose.

It is a dilemma as slow play is increasing and the reward is that you play better if you take more time before moving each counter.
Well I don't know if you play better by taking more time between each move or not. It would be difficult to test that assumption. I believe that you play better by playing more and playing faster allows you to play more.

Also I think faster play is more in the spirit of the game especially for those who view it as an historical simulation. Sgt. Steiner didn't have the time to ponder every move his squad would make while the Soviets were charging his position.

If play is getting slower it could be that the players are slowing down as they get older. Soon checkers on the veranda with everyone in their rocking chairs. ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰
 

The Purist

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Doritos bad. Cheetos horrendously bad. Love them both. Didn't really eat while gunnin, lots of coffee though.

SAN idea is interesting. Will discuss it with Captain Bacchus tonight. ๐Ÿค”๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿคช
No food at the table. If you must eat, we'll take five minutes so you can chew down a Snickers.

Drink containers are "off the table", preferably on the floor or, if you have one, a small side table/chair.
 

von Marwitz

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This constant bashing of playing slow does begin to annoy me...

I think that the 'fast camp' should realize, that it can be frustrating, no fun to play, give reason to avoid fast players 'like the plague' in the same way.

I contest and challenge, that 'fast playing' is the 'better' way to play. It ain't. It is a different way to play.

Note that I am not talking about playing slow for lack of experience, that's natural.

I want to ponder moves and options and not merely 'see what happens'. I dislike time constraints and hectic - that's the reason I quit computergames altogether as I am simply not interested and do not enjoy the 'real time' hype. I prefer to play one thorough game rather than to hasten through two of them instead. I don't mind if my opponent takes his time.

The ASL system works for both styles - fast and slow - just as well. This is why I believe this whole chess-clock thing leads to nowhere. As 'MajorDomo' has correctly pointed out, those players that the 'fast camp' would like to use chess clocks are either simply not interested in it because it is contrary to their different style of play, or in case of inexperienced players, they are not up to it.

To the point: The fast players who propose chess clocks don't need them, the others don't want them.

So the only purpose I can see in the use of chess clocks at a tournament is to keep the 'fast camp' and the 'slow camp' seperate. The 'slow camp' will not attend because they won't enjoy it. The 'fast camp' can play amongst themselves.

That said, I am not contesting that it is no fun if the extremes of both sides meet: A very fast player with a very slow one. In such a case neither will enjoy the game, both equally justified. And of course the pace of play should basically fit into the organizational frame of a tournament. All other cases are not really a problem IMHO.

von Marwitz
 

Robin Reeve

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Between too slow and too fast, there are many players who have an average rythm.
Anyway, our gaming world is extremely liberal: you play as you want and the "market" makes the selection.
If a player doesn't care about dragging a game to a boresome slumber for his opponent, or if another player rushes things and doesn't like the experience to be relaxing, they will probably find less opponents than average players.
I wouldn't play again with someone who manages to make Gavin's Take last six hours.
No more than with a player who won't engage in some social talk and who would generate a continually stressing atmosphere.
No time to lose.
 

Actionjick

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No food at the table. If you must eat, we'll take five minutes so you can chew down a Snickers.

Drink containers are "off the table", preferably on the floor or, if you have one, a small side table/chair.
Lol well we usually played on the floor and had the coffee cups on the table. Just a couple contrarians apparently
This constant bashing of playing slow does begin to annoy me...

I think that the 'fast camp' should realize, that it can be frustrating, no fun to play, give reason to avoid fast players 'like the plague' in the same way.

I contest and challenge, that 'fast playing' is the 'better' way to play. It ain't. It is a different way to play.

Note that I am not talking about playing slow for lack of experience, that's natural.

I want to ponder moves and options and not merely 'see what happens'. I dislike time constraints and hectic - that's the reason I quit computergames altogether as I am simply not interested and do not enjoy the 'real time' hype. I prefer to play one thorough game rather than to hasten through two of them instead. I don't mind if my opponent takes his time.

The ASL system works for both styles - fast and slow - just as well. This is why I believe this whole chess-clock thing leads to nowhere. As 'MajorDomo' has correctly pointed out, those players that the 'fast camp' would like to use chess clocks are either simply not interested in it because it is contrary to their different style of play, or in case of inexperienced players, they are not up to it.

To the point: The fast players who propose chess clocks don't need them, the others don't want them.

So the only purpose I can see in the use of chess clocks at a tournament is to keep the 'fast camp' and the 'slow camp' seperate. The 'slow camp' will not attend because they won't enjoy it. The 'fast camp' can play amongst themselves.

That said, I am not contesting that it is no fun if the extremes of both sides meet: A very fast player with a very slow one. In such a case neither will enjoy the game, both equally justified. And of course the pace of play should basically fit into the organizational frame of a tournament. All other cases are not really a problem IMHO.

von Marwitz
As long as you are playing I really don't care about the pace of your game. My apologies if this thread has caused you any grief, consternation or excessive alcohol consumption. ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿคช๐Ÿคช

If in some alternate reality I start playing again and have the immense pleasure and good fortune to face you in a scenario please feel free to take as much time as you like! I will occupy myself enjoying your most amiable company and raiding your amply stocked wine cellar!!๐Ÿ˜‹๐Ÿ˜‹๐Ÿ˜‹
I of course will bring a couple bottles of Chateau de Jick.๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰
 

Sparafucil3

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I think that the 'fast camp' should realize, that it can be frustrating, no fun to play, give reason to avoid fast players 'like the plague' in the same way.
First, I realize it can be just as frustrating for a slow player to play a fast player. I have never denied it nor do I deny it now. On top of that, I am not bashing such players. Lastly, there is a point at which the annoyance for either side (fast or slow) is a bridge too far. If that difference is so large that a comfortable middle ground cannot be found, where one or both players are annoyed, then by all means, avoid one another like the plague. It won't be pleasant for either side. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. We each have a measure of fun. Our values of fun must overlap or it will not be fun for either side [EXC: unless happiness for me is to see you suffer, in which case, overlap would be NA :)] -- jim
 

Actionjick

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First, I realize it can be just as frustrating for a slow player to play a fast player. I have never denied it nor do I deny it now. On top of that, I am not bashing such players. Lastly, there is a point at which the annoyance for either side (fast or slow) is a bridge too far. If that difference is so large that a comfortable middle ground cannot be found, where one or both players are annoyed, then by all means, avoid one another like the plague. It won't be pleasant for either side. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. We each have a measure of fun. Our values of fun must overlap or it will not be fun for either side [EXC: unless happiness for me is to see you suffer, in which case, overlap would be NA :)] -- jim
Schadenfrude?!?๐Ÿ˜‰
 
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