Chess clocks at ASL tournaments, feasibility, thoughts, experience

Sparafucil3

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I concur absolutely.

von Marwitz
Two things will make me abandon a game: sloooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww play and excessive whinging. There is a difference between being slow and deliberate. If it's the end of the game or a crucial turn where you need to think through your turn to make sure you get it right, that's fine by me. I support that. But if you have to agonize over every piece you move, think through all your options on every piece of cardboard you move, I would rather play chess. At least I know with the clock, I will be done in time to eat lunch and play another game. I generally can't stand the boredom. When it comes to whinging, we all whinge from time to time. That doesn't bother me too much. But when it's after every DR, or every thing that goes against you, it begins to wear me down. I have played some of the best players in the game (Pleva, Tracy, Sidhu, Bendis, Piling, Hastrup-Leth, Taylor to name a few). I don't once recall any of them whinging let alone whinging excessively. Most of them play pretty quickly too (except Taylor, he has never won a game on turn 3 he that he wouldn't rather win on turn 7 :p).

So there you go, the secret to beating me: whinge like a mule and play slow. Trust me. It works, especially around meal time. -- jim
 

Robin Reeve

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Excessively slow playing is a form of egotistic behaviour, which ignores that one is playing with another person.
Whining, especially on bad luck, can be insulting for an opponent, as it understates that their success is mostly if not entirely due to randomness.
But those behaviours are of course a question of measure.

When I take a long time to take a decision, I usually apologise to my opponent.
When I suffer a streak of bad luck I scold my cardboard troops and the bad quality of their gear.

All in all, playing implies establishing a relation with one's opponent.
No rule replaces that dimension.
It can only limit excesses.
 

Actionjick

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Two things will make me abandon a game: sloooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww play and excessive whinging. There is a difference between being slow and deliberate. If it's the end of the game or a crucial turn where you need to think through your turn to make sure you get it right, that's fine by me. I support that. But if you have to agonize over every piece you move, think through all your options on every piece of cardboard you move, I would rather play chess. At least I know with the clock, I will be done in time to eat lunch and play another game. I generally can't stand the boredom. When it comes to whinging, we all whinge from time to time. That doesn't bother me too much. But when it's after every DR, or every thing that goes against you, it begins to wear me down. I have played some of the best players in the game (Pleva, Tracy, Sidhu, Bendis, Piling, Hastrup-Leth, Taylor to name a few). I don't once recall any of them whinging let alone whinging excessively. Most of them play pretty quickly too (except Taylor, he has never won a game on turn 3 he that he wouldn't rather win on turn 7 :p).

So there you go, the secret to beating me: whinge like a mule and play slow. Trust me. It works, especially around meal time. -- jim
Lol🤣 Jim you should'nt reveal your weaknesses to your opponent unless it gives me a good laugh! 🤣🤣
 

Actionjick

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Experience comes with play. You wanna play more? Play faster. It's a nice positive reinforcement feedback loop. -- jim
I believe that the better you know the rules the faster you can play. The more you play the better you understand the rules, the feedback loop Jim mentioned. There are other ways to speed up play. We memorized the IFT which isn't that difficult to do. The less chart checking and looking up rules you do the quicker the game will go and IMO the more fun you will have. Which isn't to say you shouldn't check the rules when needed but preparing for a scenario by reviewing rules you are unfamiliar with or rarely use will definitely speed up your game.
 

The Purist

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I'm in the fast (or faster) category but I do not mind 'deliberate' play so long as things keep moving forward.

I do remember one round in Chicago in 2000 where time expired. I was the attacker and it took me about five minutes to complete my first prep fire and movement phase. My opponent was shocked.

I spent maybe 25-30 minutes of that round actually 'playing' the game and we barely made it through half the game turns. I would take a few minutes to execute a phase followed by looooong periods of sitting there doing nothing while my opponent was hemming and hawing over every potential shot or move. I eventually lost interest and didn't much care one way or the other how the the game was judged.

I just wanted a beer and a burger.
 

Jazz

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Experience comes with play. You wanna play more? Play faster. It's a nice positive reinforcement feedback loop. -- jim
Exactly.

You learn how to be viscerally competent by getting into visceral situations and seeing what works. You learn what works by trying things.....not by analyzing those things. Can't be afraid to lose a game or two in the process of learning.

It's only cardboard.
 
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Actionjick

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Exactly.

You learn how to be viscerally competent by getting into visceral situations. You learn what works by trying things.....not by analyzing those things. Can't be afraid to lose a game or two in the process of learning.

It's only cardboard.
Couldn't have expressed it better!😊
 

Actionjick

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I'm not advocating the use of clocks at tournaments as something to be done all the time. In certain situations it might be desirable but certainly not as standard practice. There is no reason to institute a big cure for what is most likely a small problem. What I was really interested in was the mechanics of how clocks would be used.

I do think it would be useful for TD's to inform participants what the procedure would be if a match couldn't be completed in the allotted time.
 

bendizoid

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The worst is when you’re losing horribly and some Mr Slow Poke starts crawling even slower so they don’t screw it up or slightly less annoying but more obnoxious, the slow poke losing player wishing to punish by dragging it out. Thankful both are rare exceptions.
 

bendizoid

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On a side note, really don’t mind losing anymore. I’m actually proud of the person who beat me and give them a gold star. ‘played enough to know, that person just brought their ‘A’ game because I’m usually not easy to beat. Just say’in.

On topic, do little things like roll the dice quicker (leave them lay), plow through the rally phase and allow little ‘take backs’ on obvious moves that were overlooked in the interest of expedited play. It all adds up.
 

Actionjick

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How many ASL experts do you know that are undefeated? I never met one.
Then again how many ASL " experts " are there? I would venture that even the very best players wouldn't claim to be experts. The system is just too ccomplex for expertise which is evidenced by the number of questions on this forum even by those with decades of play under their belts. 🤔
 

RandyT0001

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Then again how many ASL " experts " are there? I would venture that even the very best players wouldn't claim to be experts. The system is just too ccomplex for expertise which is evidenced by the number of questions on this forum even by those with decades of play under their belts. 🤔
This is why I question if computers will ever be able to play ASL like Chess, beating skilled humans.
 
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