Chess clock in tournament

[PresterJohn]

It would perhaps be better if you had the option to call for a draw (half points), if you're past half way on the allotted time and less than halfway on the game turns.

 

[Robin Reeve]

It would perhaps be better if you had the option to call for a draw (half points), if you're past half way on the allotted time and less than halfway on the game turns.

I think that there indeed are some ways to mitigate the difficulty of not being able to respect the time limits.
I think that, except for a nearly totally deregulated tourney (which sounds as an oxymoron), solving an unfinished scenario's result will always leave a feeling of frustration.
In the case of the automatic draw, what about one side clearly heading towards victory?

 

[PresterJohn]

If you're less than halfway through the turns and are clearly headed to a victory with one hour to go then you can sit there and grin and bear it until the allotted time is completed, and you then call for immediate adjudication. Whereupon the adjudicators will be so pleased at having to make such an easy adjudication that they will declare you receive a bonus point on top of the win.

 

[Robin Reeve]

If you're less than halfway through the turns and are clearly headed to a victory with one hour to go then you can sit there and grin and bear it until the allotted time is completed, and you then call for immediate adjudication. Whereupon the adjudicators will be so pleased at having to make such an easy adjudication that they will declare you receive a bonus point on top of the win.

As the opponent of the evident winner, I would concede even before the time limit is reached.
That way, I and them could go and talk with other people, eat, have a nap, etc.
Adjudication only occurs, anyway, when players haven't reached an agreement.
Now, in a single elimination part of a tourney, a draw won't tell which of the players remains on board and which one is out of the competition.

 

[PresterJohn]

But I was referring to the situation described by ibncalb where he just wants to resign instead of face the slow player. I am reliably informed that 80% of games proceed without any issues and finish on time. So you only have to make allowances for problems in the remaining 20%. Crossing the halfway time and not completing half the turns would indicate a problem and some special rules for a half points draw would help alleviate the misery.

 

[Michael R]

Probably be a cold day in hell before I ever attend another. Used to want to get back to ASLOK, but I'm pretty sure the tourney scene has passed me by.

The BEST tourney will always be the one in which nobody involved and nobody attending gives two shits about winning it.

That is ASLOK. You can spend a whole week doing open gaming.

 

[Martin Mayers]

There are a quite a number of "new" players who are not exactly new - but folks who used to play decades ago but rejoined ASL. There are a good number of them on Discord (I bet you others are on FB). We talk about the benefits of joining tournaments from time to time especially for newbies but they are positively concerned about what they read on GS (they don't have to sign up to read all this) and "urban legends" of what the tourney scene is like.

Invariably they are worried about not being good enough .. and having to put up the expenses but ending up subjecting themselves to some form of hostility because they are not up to par.

Not a "Grand-Armee" but more that we'd expect. It's not a matter of us being dismissive of them. It's more a matter of them being dismissive of us.

So I absolutely agree with you - they are definitely NOT "straining against their leashes to attend tournaments". Given what I said, do I have a solution? No. I was just hoping we do better PR for the tourney scene and not make matters worse before we find a solution.

Mate...I like you. But that's bullshit you've thrown together there to try to add power to your argument. I strongly doubt that there are any players who would attend tournaments but who have put off by reading Gamesquad or by these "urban legends" whatever they are.

When I was in a band, if I had £10 for every friend who "nearly came to the gig" or "might come to the gig at the weekend" or who "I was gunna come to the gig but darn it, my car broke down" then I'd be a millionaire. Anyone saying "I'd like to do a tournament but the scary guys on Gamesquad are frightening me", are firmly in that camp...that camp being people who will NEVER attend a tournament anyway. But frankly, I don't believe they exist.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Mate...I like you. But that's bullshit you've thrown together there to try to add power to your argument. I strongly doubt that there are any players who would attend tournaments but who have put off by reading Gamesquad or by these "urban legends" whatever they are.

When I was in a band, if I had £10 for every friend who "nearly came to the gig" or "might come to the gig at the weekend" or who "I was gunna come to the gig but darn it, my car broke down" then I'd be a millionaire. Anyone saying "I'd like to do a tournament but the scary guys on Gamesquad are frightening me", are firmly in that camp...that camp being people who will NEVER attend a tournament anyway. But frankly, I don't believe they exist.

Shame - I rest my case. Your circus - Your monkeys.

Quoting you - "that camp being people who will NEVER attend a tournament anyway. But frankly, I don't believe they exist."

If you saying people who won't attend a tourney will NEVER attend a tourney, so it doesn't matter WHAT we say. I guess we are pretty done. Pity.

Blackpool's your tourney, your call and I respect that.

I do hope to meet one day, and have this conversation again.

PS I have always said "If I have a nickel for everytime I ..." instead of a 10 quids per. Inflation, what can I say?
PPS We did look to have another tourney in Asia after Singapore. It's tough finding a venue that make the numbers work (flight, accomodation, venue) without attracting new players, and new players needed a compelling case to spare the expense to start with. Anyway, tough business.

 

[Robin Reeve]

The only refrain from attending tourneys I have read about, was their competitive aspect.
Meetings with casual play, either parallel to a tourney, or it being the only reason of their existence (e.g. the French Tiger Meet), never have seen people not going because of GS forums (or other forums) members.

 

[trailrunner]

I strongly doubt that there are any players who would attend tournaments but who have put off by reading Gamesquad...

But frankly, I don't believe they exist.

It's actually not that farfetched. It took a bit of courage for me to attend my first tournaments. I was mostly worried about not knowing the rules well enough, or embarrassing myself in some way.

Edit to add a little clarification: Before I started attending tournaments, I wasn't specifically worried about time limits, mostly because I had never considered it to be an issue. If the tournament rules said something about this, then I would it would have been an additional thing to be concerned about. Is my opponent going to get annoyed because I have to look up a rule? Do these guys play really fast and I'll be playing too slow? For a newcomer, it's a little intimidating going to an event where it seems like everyone knows each other, and everyone has been playing the game for over 20 years and knows the rules.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Shame to admit. Now that I am much closer to all the tourney action. I have yet to think I am good enough to join the UK or the European tournaments (don't know people, don't know the conventions, am I fast enough? will I piss people off - it all sounds very serious). Given the expense, I don't want it to be a less than an okay experience .. though it'll be real nice meeting folks like Mayers & Bishop.

I guess when I say "people", I meant me.

PS @Martin Mayers - trips down to Oxford anytime soon?

 

[Martin Mayers]

It's actually not that farfetched. It took a bit of courage for me to attend my first tournaments. I was mostly worried about not knowing the rules well enough, or embarrassing myself in some way.

Edit to add a little clarification: Before I started attending tournaments, I wasn't specifically worried about time limits, mostly because I had never considered it to be an issue. If the tournament rules said something about this, then I would it would have been an additional thing to be concerned about. Is my opponent going to get annoyed because I have to look up a rule? Do these guys play really fast and I'll be playing too slow? For a newcomer, it's a little intimidating going to an event where it seems like everyone knows each other, and everyone has been playing the game for over 20 years and knows the rules.

Of course it took a bit of courage. It took EVERYBODY a bit of courage to attend their first tourney. Everyone would have been concerned about the two issues you mentioned. And of course everyone's concerned about entering new groups with guys they don't know. It's perfectly natural, human concern. The reason most players who would like to attend don't I'd posit is because they have no-one to attend WITH.

No-one's concerned about slow play though as probably 99% of people don't play slow. It's an issue, which solely cropped up in this thread and therefore was worthy of comment (and now endless debate). An issue for TD's not for individual players. But, for TDs all's I'm saying is that players who play extremely slowly can (but usually don't !) cause an issue. Players who then misbehave about the repercussions cause a larger issue.

And, the idea of new players = slow play has been espoused on this thread. Couldn't be further from the truth for the record. The slowest players I come across (and I'm not super fast) are very experienced players trying to play the perfect game.

 

[Martin Mayers]

Shame to admit. Now that I am much closer to all the tourney action. I have yet to think I am good enough to join the UK or the European tournaments (don't know people, don't know the conventions, am I fast enough? will I piss people off - it all sounds very serious). Given the expense, I don't want it to be a less than an okay experience .. though it'll be real nice meeting folks like Mayers & Bishop.

I guess when I say "people", I meant me.

PS @Martin Mayers - trips down to Oxford anytime soon?

Are you fast enough? Can you get through a 3 hour scenario after breakfast in under 5 hours? Can you get through a 6 hour scenario after lunch in under 12 hours? If you cannot then you may have to adjudicate the end of your games.

Are you then going to act like an arse if a TD says "you need to please finish now"? If the answer is yes, then probably best to not enter the main tournament but play around the perimeters of it (friendly play, other 'mini' tournaments, etc.)

Am I being unreasonable ?

The 'reward' for such good behaviour at Bounding Fire Blackpool was over £1,000 of 'swag'. Some handed to tournament and prize winners. Some drawn randomly such that all attendees can potentially gain benefit. I think this is a fair agreement.

By the way...reference the earlier spat with your friend Robin. Not one single penny finished in the TD's pockets. ALL fed back into prizes. Literally drawn up in the tournament 'accounts' each year.

 

[Martin Mayers]

The only refrain from attending tourneys I have read about, was their competitive aspect.
Meetings with casual play, either parallel to a tourney, or it being the only reason of their existence (e.g. the French Tiger Meet), never have seen people not going because of GS forums (or other forums) members.

Agree. This has become a 'construct' which has resulted from people getting too invested in trying to prove that other people are wrong. It's a bit silly.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Are you fast enough? Can you get through a 3 hour scenario after breakfast in under 5 hours? Can you get through a 6 hour scenario after lunch in under 12 hours? If you cannot then you may have to adjudicate the end of your games.

Are you then going to act like an arse if a TD says "you need to please finish now"? If the answer is yes, then probably best to not enter the main tournament but play around the perimeters of it (friendly play, other 'mini' tournaments, etc.)

Am I being unreasonable ?

The 'reward' for such good behaviour at Bounding Fire Blackpool was over £1,000 of 'swag'. Some handed to tournament and prize winners. Some drawn randomly such that all attendees can potentially gain benefit. I think this is a fair agreement.

By the way...reference the earlier spat with your friend Robin. Not one single penny finished in the TD's pockets. ALL fed back into prizes. Literally drawn up in the tournament 'accounts' each year.

This is way better.

I didn’t have a splat with Robin. Can’t comment on his interpretation. As someone who put together tourneys - we are happy if we break even. I honestly don’t think anyone suspect otherwise.

 

[Martin Mayers]

Shame - I rest my case. Your circus - Your monkeys.

Quoting you - "that camp being people who will NEVER attend a tournament anyway. But frankly, I don't believe they exist."

If you saying people who won't attend a tourney will NEVER attend a tourney, so it doesn't matter WHAT we say. I guess we are pretty done. Pity.

Blackpool's your tourney, your call and I respect that.

I do hope to meet one day, and have this conversation again.

PS I have always said "If I have a nickel for everytime I ..." instead of a 10 quids per. Inflation, what can I say?
PPS We did look to have another tourney in Asia after Singapore. It's tough finding a venue that make the numbers work (flight, accomodation, venue) without attracting new players, and new players needed a compelling case to spare the expense to start with. Anyway, tough business.

Most...I'd posit over 99% of the global ASL community...who do not currently attend tournaments will NEVER attend tournaments. I don't think this is even a particularly controversial statement. It's not a group of people really worth pursuing with any kind of intent. It's like cold call selling to try to sell windows to people on a new housing estate.

Not my tournament anymore. I've given up on it. Too much stress for me I'm afraid. Note, I've not given up on tournament attendance though. I'll be at Double One this year for example.

 

[Actionjick]

Shame to admit. Now that I am much closer to all the tourney action. I have yet to think I am good enough to join the UK or the European tournaments (don't know people, don't know the conventions, am I fast enough? will I piss people off - it all sounds very serious). Given the expense, I don't want it to be a less than an okay experience .. though it'll be real nice meeting folks like Mayers & Bishop.

I guess when I say "people", I meant me.

PS @Martin Mayers - trips down to Oxford anytime soon?

Nobody should ever let their perceived lack of experience, rules knowledge or ability stop them from attending an event. It's just a great way to improve those shortcomings and make new friends.

 

[Martin Mayers]

I didn’t have a splat with Robin. Can’t comment on his interpretation. As someone who put together tourneys - we are happy if we break even. I honestly don’t think anyone suspect otherwise.

I know mate. I was trying to be humorous but it didn't feed though...

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I know mate. I was trying to be humorous but it didn't feed though...

All good mate, all good

 

[Vic Provost]

I don't go to many tourneys anymore since I got sick 5 years ago BUT from the 30+ years I was at tournaments, my feelings are that slow players are only an occasional problem, very few times (twice in tourneys) that I've actually run into that problem. Most players I have found to have a good enough pace and the real good ones always seem to be a turn or 2 ahead and are never a problem for pace of play. Forget the damn chess clock, you don't need that, just do what Gary Trezza used to do when he ran a tourney, you had 5 to 6 hours to finish a round and all the scenario choices should be easily finished in that time frame so when getting close to the deadline, Gary would come over with his penalty flag and threaten adjudication about 30 minutes before the deadline. That was usually enough to get the slower player moving, if not, Gary, maybe with some help from Steve Pleva would analyze the gameboard and award the win to who they thought was closer to the VC. Simple method and does not drive everyone crazy with a chess clock most don't want or need. Stop staring at the damn board and move a piece for crying out loud!