Chess clock in tournament

[Michael R]

Robin & Honkongwargamer: Please take your misunderstanding of each other out of the thread and into private conversation.

 

[von Marwitz]

Whilst we know the effect of people who use slowness as a tactic, ...

At times, in this forum you hear the allegation that people would use slowness as a deliberate tactic to frustrate their opponents or to edge out a win by a possible advantageous adjucation.

Sometimes, I am really astonished what people seem to think about that other guy across the table:

• Accusations of "cheating" when not using precision dice or even if people don't see the need to exchange precision dice (sic!) should they not roll as the "offended" side seems to be content with.
• Accusations of deliberate unsportsmanlike behavior by slowness if the pace of play vexes the "offended" side.

I am solidly convinced that in the vast majority of cases such accusations are unfounded.
It is highly more likely that people voicing such accusations do their opponent injustice rather than rightfully hitting a black sheep.

Still, some people seem incapable of restraint when accusing others of such things.
Damn it, folks! What kind of attitude is displayed by such a look upon others? What kind of world do you place yourself in?

Such people should pull themselves together and keep their sensitivities in check!


von Marwitz

 

[stuh42asl]

The sad part of using the chess clocks at tournaments the new players will quit, and we need all the newbies we can get.. most of us are not spring chickens anymore. If we expect them to not only master ASL which in reality takes at least a year of constant playing, then are required to use a chess clock at a tourney.. they will just not do it..too fast , and they will quickly become frustrated and stressed out. ASL is a game for fun and relaxation not a stress creating experience, which for many ,will take their enjoyment away.

 

[Actionjick]

Wow! That's all I got. Calm down people. It's just a frickin game and most players don't even attend events.

 

[Faded 8-1]

Probably be a cold day in hell before I ever attend another. Used to want to get back to ASLOK, but I'm pretty sure the tourney scene has passed me by.

The BEST tourney will always be the one in which nobody involved and nobody attending gives two shits about winning it.

 

[Martin Mayers]

Probably be a cold day in hell before I ever attend another. Used to want to get back to ASLOK, but I'm pretty sure the tourney scene has passed me by.

The BEST tourney will always be the one in which nobody involved and nobody attending gives two shits about winning it.

I've never played a player yet, in 25 years+ who didn't want to win. What's the point playing a game if you don't want to win. Granted you can take your level of competitiveness to various levels but if you're saying you don't care whether you win or lose a scenario I just simply don't believe you I'm afraid. Every ASL player plays to win. Every single one without exception.

New guy attended BFB two years back. His first event. He decided, persuaded by me, to enter the Main Tournament. Even though he'd only played a handful of Full ASL Rules scenarios before. He did so, feeling he would learn a lot but on the understanding he didn't care about winning or losing and just wanted a good experience and to learn a lot. He WON his second tournament scenario...and I can tell you he definitely DID care about winning (in an entirely good way). Because his face and demeanour was absolutely lit up.

 

[Martin Mayers]

At times, in this forum you hear the allegation that people would use slowness as a deliberate tactic to frustrate their opponents or to edge out a win by a possible advantageous adjucation.

Sometimes, I am really astonished what people seem to think about that other guy across the table:

• Accusations of "cheating" when not using precision dice or even if people don't see the need to exchange precision dice (sic!) should they not roll as the "offended" side seems to be content with.
• Accusations of deliberate unsportsmanlike behavior by slowness if the pace of play vexes the "offended" side.

I am solidly convinced that in the vast majority of cases such accusations are unfounded.
It is highly more likely that people voicing such accusations do their opponent injustice rather than rightfully hitting a black sheep.

Still, some people seem incapable of restraint when accusing others of such things.
Damn it, folks! What kind of attitude is displayed by such a look upon others? What kind of world do you place yourself in?

Such people should pull themselves together and keep their sensitivities in check!


von Marwitz

Not cheating. I wouldn't go that far. But if you've got the option to take 4 hours or 8 hours to play 'the perfect game' then you're going to have a far better chance over 8 hours to play that perfect game. And I think people who play ASL very slowly are doing so to try to play their perfect game. Which is absolutely fine outside an organised tournament setting where there simply have to be time limits else it cannot work properly.

 

[Martin Mayers]

The sad part of using the chess clocks at tournaments the new players will quit, and we need all the newbies we can get.. most of us are not spring chickens anymore. If we expect them to not only master ASL which in reality takes at least a year of constant playing, then are required to use a chess clock at a tourney.. they will just not do it..too fast , and they will quickly become frustrated and stressed out. ASL is a game for fun and relaxation not a stress creating experience, which for many ,will take their enjoyment away.

I wouldn't worry too much about this frothing at the bit, veritable Grand-Armee of new players, straining against their leashes to attend tournaments too much to be honest pal !

 

[stuh42asl]

I wouldn't worry too much about this frothing at the bit, veritable Grand-Armee of new players, straining against their leashes to attend tournaments too much to be honest pal !

Yes...I am mostly house bound right now.. being a retired veteran that has exceeded his 250 000km warranty and finds out there is no replacement body parts.. due to your body parts are no longer in production...wellll that and the fact I as deaf as a post, I guess VASL is where it is at.

 

[stuh42asl]

Lets play VASL.... great everyone just play it loud...i cannot hear a friggin thing

 

[Faded 8-1]

I've never played a player yet, in 25 years+ who didn't want to win. What's the point playing a game if you don't want to win. Granted you can take your level of competitiveness to various levels but if you're saying you don't care whether you win or lose a scenario I just simply don't believe you I'm afraid. Every ASL player plays to win. Every single one without exception.

New guy attended BFB two years back. His first event. He decided, persuaded by me, to enter the Main Tournament. Even though he'd only played a handful of Full ASL Rules scenarios before. He did so, feeling he would learn a lot but on the understanding he didn't care about winning or losing and just wanted a good experience and to learn a lot. He WON his second tournament scenario...and I can tell you he definitely DID care about winning (in an entirely good way). Because his face and demeanour was absolutely lit up.

I was talking about winning the whole tourney, not a scenario.

That said, neither I nor anyone I know has ever attended an ASL tourney to win it. The goal is always just to have fun playing a lot of ASL in a short timeframe, meeting some cool ASL players from around the country/world, sharing some laughs and maybe a drink or two.

 

[PresterJohn]

Lets play VASL.... great everyone just play it loud...i cannot hear a friggin thing

There's a lot to be said for that.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Lets play VASL.... great everyone just play it loud...i cannot hear a friggin thing

I have played VASL where both parties type (by fingers or by voice recognition) in the chat box. That works too

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Not cheating. I wouldn't go that far. But if you've got the option to take 4 hours or 8 hours to play 'the perfect game' then you're going to have a far better chance over 8 hours to play that perfect game. And I think people who play ASL very slowly are doing so to try to play their perfect game. Which is absolutely fine outside an organised tournament setting where there simply have to be time limits else it cannot work properly.

So well then we are not talking about the Tactically Slow but Naturally Slow. Time limits are necessary at any tourneys. The Perfect Game here involves completely it under X hours (just like you do it under X turns). Perhaps the deal is to make them agree to it more explicitly when they sign up?

Their choices are then to

• Conclude the game in under the time limit
• Accept TD judication and move on
• Not Accept TD judication and get dropped out of the competition side of the tourney (feel free to keep playing) .. and risk alienating at least a few ASL'rs in the community over what's supposed to be a fun weekend. Can't imagine said individuals joining still the next year.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I wouldn't worry too much about this frothing at the bit, veritable Grand-Armee of new players, straining against their leashes to attend tournaments too much to be honest pal !

There are a quite a number of "new" players who are not exactly new - but folks who used to play decades ago but rejoined ASL. There are a good number of them on Discord (I bet you others are on FB). We talk about the benefits of joining tournaments from time to time especially for newbies but they are positively concerned about what they read on GS (they don't have to sign up to read all this) and "urban legends" of what the tourney scene is like.

Invariably they are worried about not being good enough .. and having to put up the expenses but ending up subjecting themselves to some form of hostility because they are not up to par.

Not a "Grand-Armee" but more that we'd expect. It's not a matter of us being dismissive of them. It's more a matter of them being dismissive of us.

So I absolutely agree with you - they are definitely NOT "straining against their leashes to attend tournaments". Given what I said, do I have a solution? No. I was just hoping we do better PR for the tourney scene and not make matters worse before we find a solution.

 

[PresterJohn]

Sounds like you just need a regular clock with a warning tone and a strict ending time. And maybe some rules for a draw?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Wow! That's all I got. Calm down people. It's just a frickin game and most players don't even attend events.

You are right.
I am sorry I reacted as I did.

 

[Actionjick]

You are right.
I am sorry I reacted as I did.

Not to worry. Things get a bit disputaious at times. It happens.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I don't know if chess clocks work for tourneys - I am interested in the result of our Italian friends return of experience.
All comes down to adapting to a set of rules - to "playing the game" of a tourney and its constraints.
Most people here don't blame slow players per se, as there are different ways to play the game.
If someone wants to play a tournament, this however implies evaluating if they can respect its requirements.
From an organizer p.o.v., what are the means to ensure that the contest can reach its end smoothly - knowing when to give slack and when to make decisions to get things going at a reasonable pace?

 

[ibncalb]

I think some people commenting here have never played a slow player.

At least playing a friend who is slow you can just call him a wanker until he speeds up.

But being stuck in a tournament against a slow player is horrendous.

When I was last in that situation I didn't think it was an option just to give up. Now I would just resign.

When you realise you could be playing another game of ASL at the same time because your opponent is so slow then it's time to resign.