ChatGTP

[Robin Reeve]

The main problem remains that, if you don't know how the rules work enough, you won't have the means to know if ChatGPT is giving you reliable information or not.

 

[von Marwitz]

This whole thread has really went off of the rails. My original post was geared to towards the new player who is struggling to understand the basic mechanics of this game. We all need to admit that ASL rules are written with a sort of "legal-ese" which, until one used to, can be a little intimidating, All I was suggesting was that ChatGtp could be of some use in aiding in the understanding of "basic" rules and mechanics for "the new player".

The best advice that I can give you as a new player is to get in contact with experienced players that teach you to play the game. This has numerous benefits:

• They know what they are talking about.
• You get to play the game rather than puzzling about it.
• By learning as you play with a mentor, you automatically get a feeling of which parts of the rules are the most important ones - and which should be learned and understood first.
• A Mentor will overcome the "legalese" for you.

Some people in the forum here have dabbled with ChatGPT in the ASL context. Feedback so far is, that ChatGPT might be sounding somewhat ASLish without being sound.

By what I have read here, my assessment is that ChatGPT is useless as an ASL teacher or assistant.
It fails to grasp the intriciacies on all levels, which are important. In ASL something like "this rule works roughly like this" is a recipe for disaster. You have to know exactly how a rule works as many rules are interdependent. ChatGPT is not up to the task.

Picture it like this - a maths teacher explains to you:

4 minus 2 is roughly 2. If you subtract something, the result will be less.

Well, you learn that 4 minus 2 is not 0 or not -100. You also learn some detail about subtraction.
But if you write down in a test that 4-2= roughly 2, you will score no point and fail. And if you divide something, the result will be less as well.

This is what ChatGPT can do for you for learning ASL. I do not think that it is of any use in that context.


Personally, I learned alone by myself with English, much less ASLish being my native language.
It was a true PITA. And I also "learned" mistakes with nobody there to correct them. I was missing out on tactics and opportunities the rules provide because I never observed anyone applying them.

The fundamental change came, when I played ASL against "real" opponents that became mentors via VASL. The pace of learning increased manyfold. My quality of play increased a lot. The pace of play improved as well.

Bottomline:
Forget about ChatGPT, go get some real opponents to play via VASL or Face-to-Face.

von Marwitz

 

[Tin_Man]

My suggestion is unanswered.
It would be interesting, though, to have examples that we could examine and evaluate.
Some of the presently debated questions - such as the MP cost for a VCA chamge on a woods-road - would be most interesting cases.

And what would everybody's answer be to this particular situation?

 

[Robin Reeve]

And what would everybody's answer be to this particular situation?

We have a Perry Sez which sticks well to the rules as written.
But many players – me included – haven't played them correctly.
The debate is more about adapting the rules to the common usage, or adding some clarifying words, or leaving the rules as they are, as they are not incoherent.

 

[Jazz]

Here’s What Happens When Your Lawyer Uses ChatGPT

A lawyer representing a man who sued an airline relied on artificial intelligence to help prepare a court filing. It did not go well.

www.nytimes.com

 

[von Marwitz]

Here’s What Happens When Your Lawyer Uses ChatGPT

A lawyer representing a man who sued an airline relied on artificial intelligence to help prepare a court filing. It did not go well.

www.nytimes.com

Just wow!

Now imagine what happens if you program bots to make such inquiries and use other bots afterwards to widely spread the "results" throughout the net. Eventually, search engines will find, rank, and display these bogus results, making serious research all the more difficult. Finally, AI will use data from the bogus results spread throughout the net to "learn", which will skew its algorithms. Rinse and repeat. Sounds like potential automatic FUBAR.

von Marwitz

 

[Old Noob]

All I know is, DO NOT invest in the Skynet program!

 

[holdit]

Just wow!

Now imagine what happens if you program bots to make such inquiries and use other bots afterwards to widely spread the "results" throughout the net. Eventually, search engines will find, rank, and display these bogus results, making serious research all the more difficult. Finally, AI will use data from the bogus results spread throughout the net to "learn", which will skew its algorithms. Rinse and repeat. Sounds like potential automatic FUBAR.

von Marwitz

I tried out ChatGPT on a couple of things:

1. Something technical: How to create an Active Directory Group Poilicy Object to <do something>.
2. Provide the French order of battle for the Battle of Waterloo

The first answer was probably correct once upton a time, but after Step 3 or thereabouts what I was seeing on screen didn't match the instructions it was giving me.

The second answer contained units and commanders who weren't even at the battle, yet the correct information is very easy to find. For example, it had Marshal Davout commanding a corps at Waterloo when in fact he was back in Paris acting as Minister of War. Worse, even after the error was pointed out, it would just serve up a different wrong version. I gave it four or five attemps and it still didn't get it right. Given that ChatGPT's "intelligence" is based on reading vast quantities of information, that's not an impressive performance.

I work in IT but I have zero expertise with AI, but it's hard not to conclude (for the moment at least) that while there are a lot of 1s and 0s being spilled on how the sky is falling due to AI with dire consequences for society, in truth anyone who relies on it does so at their peril, because you need to verify the information it provides, and if you can't be sure of the information it provides, what's the point of using it?

 

[Tuomo]

...because you need to verify the information it provides, and if you can't be sure of the information it provides, what's the point of using it?

Your post indicates an alarming tendency toward fact-based reasoning. This will not serve you well in the political or economic arenas.

 

[holdit]

Your post indicates an alarming tendency toward fact-based reasoning. This will not serve you well in the political or economic arenas.

It's a good thing then l that I don't work in either and have no intention of doing so.

 

[Jazz]

Just wow!

Now imagine what happens if you program bots to make such inquiries and use other bots afterwards to widely spread the "results" throughout the net. Eventually, search engines will find, rank, and display these bogus results, making serious research all the more difficult. Finally, AI will use data from the bogus results spread throughout the net to "learn", which will skew its algorithms. Rinse and repeat. Sounds like potential automatic FUBAR.

von Marwitz

You are making my head hurt….

 

[von Marwitz]

You are making my head hurt….

At least your head hurting does not kill you...

US AI-Enabled Drone Attacked Its Operator in Simulated Test: Report

A US drone controlled by artificial intelligence suddenly attacked its operator for allegedly “interfering” with its pre-programmed mission.

www.thedefensepost.com

von Marwitz

 

[DVexile]

At least your head hurting does not kill you...

US AI-Enabled Drone Attacked Its Operator in Simulated Test: Report

A US drone controlled by artificial intelligence suddenly attacked its operator for allegedly “interfering” with its pre-programmed mission.

www.thedefensepost.com

von Marwitz

And as a demonstration that you don’t need AI for people to make stuff up and end up having it reported as true:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/02/us-air-force-colonel-misspoke-drone-killing-pilot

 

[johnl]

The problem as I see it is that the way it is being reported many people will take its non-technical output as gospel. Even the CEO of Open AI only got a couple of paragraphs when he warned Congress there could be dire consequences.

How many people actually try to verify the stuff they get on internet?

 

[sswann]

Only those who actually study history.
Politicians are NA.

 

[Vic Provost]

Good point.

With some people, possibly....but there are a number of people both here, on Discord, and/or the various FB ASL pages who have been playing and reading rules for multiple decades and are accepted experts. You need to go by what someone you trust to read the rulz correctly, which is the same thing as ChatGPT, except these various experts actually have a pedigree as to their expertise. Something that is very much lacking with ChatGPT/

I'll ask Carl Nogueira or Tom Morin a rules question that I know (with a rules reference) they will get back to me with a correct answer, if they don't know, Tom will do a Perry Sez question to Perry and wait for the correct response. I'm too old to get excited about AI, knowing human history, this will ultimately not end well, stay out of what's left of my life.

 

[ecz]

well, nobody posted an example of how ChatGPT "thinks"
here is one about a topic where we all are expert enough.

Question: which are the main differences between Advanced Squad leader and the older game Squad Leader by Avalon Hill Game Company?

in less than two second this was his (its?) answer:
As of my last update in September 2021, Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) and Squad Leader are both tactical-level wargames published by the Avalon Hill Game Company. They share a common theme and some gameplay mechanics, but there are significant differences between the two. Please note that there might have been updates or expansions released beyond my last update, so some details might have changed.

1. Complexity and Depth:
   • Squad Leader is a simpler and more accessible game compared to Advanced Squad Leader. It was designed to introduce players to the tactical combat system.
   • Advanced Squad Leader, on the other hand, is a much more complex and detailed game. It is considered one of the most intricate and realistic tactical wargames ever created, with a vast array of rules and modules covering a wide variety of scenarios.
2. Rule Structure:
   • Squad Leader has a basic game and various expansion modules. Each module introduces new rules and units, but they are designed to be compatible with the core rules.
   • Advanced Squad Leader is built as a modular system right from the start. It consists of a rulebook (ASL Rulebook) and numerous modules covering different theaters of war, time periods, and specific battles. These modules often build upon each other, adding complexity and depth.
3. Unit Scale:
   • Squad Leader primarily focuses on infantry combat. It typically depicts individual infantry squads and their support weapons, with each counter representing a small group of soldiers.
   • Advanced Squad Leader expands the scope to include a wide variety of military units, ranging from infantry and support weapons to tanks, artillery, and aircraft. The unit scale is more detailed and includes individual crew members for vehicles.
4. Scenarios and Campaigns:
   • Squad Leader offers specific scenarios and some campaign games, but the focus is generally on individual engagements.
   • Advanced Squad Leader provides a vast number of historical scenarios, and many modules include complete campaign games that link multiple scenarios together, allowing players to experience longer and more extensive campaigns.
5. Components:
   • Squad Leader was originally released with geomorphic mapboards and cardboard counters.
   • Advanced Squad Leader often uses larger and more detailed maps, as well as thicker and more numerous counters. Additionally, some modules include additional components like overlays and fortifications.
6. Community and Support:
   • Advanced Squad Leader has a dedicated and passionate community of players and has received continued support through official and unofficial expansions, modules, and publications.
   • Squad Leader, while still appreciated by many players, doesn't enjoy the same level of ongoing support and development as ASL.

It's worth noting that Advanced Squad Leader is intended to be backward compatible with Squad Leader. Players who own Squad Leader can use its components in Advanced Squad Leader with minimal adjustments. This was a deliberate design choice to allow players to transition from the simpler game to the more complex system gradually.

 

[ecz]

As a basic user I had the curiosity to test his knowledge of technical subjects, where I am expert. Invariably his answers were wrong and silly when I asked in depth. As someone said A.I. is still science fiction