Changing TCA and Defensive First Fire

chief2000

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As a newbie in the wonderful world of armor, I have a question about TCA. During an attacker's movement phase, suppose all I do is change my TCA so I'd be able to fire during the AFPh. Does this change of TCA trigger defensive first fire even if all I am doing is changing my TCA? I know, for example, that expending a MF to start qualifies as movement and triggers defensive first fire.

Hope I'm making sense.

Thanks guys for all your help!

Chris
 

klasmalmstrom

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If you change the TCA during the MPh, you are expending MP, and can thusly be subject to Defensive First Fire.

But you could just change the TCA at the end of the PFPh, and then fire in the AFPh..
 

Larry

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C3.22 is the rule Klas is pointing at:

Such a change in the PFPh cancels any
movement possibilities for that Gun (even a vehicular Gun) and its crew for
the rest of that Player Turn, but does not prevent that Gun from attacking in
the AFPh—presumably now without any Case A DRM.
The caveat is C5.22 and the forfeit of ROF/IF possibilities.

All ordnance weapons firing during the
AFPh which did not enter their current hex/hexside during that Player
Turn, and are not using Opportunity Fire (A7.25), are subject to the Case
B (+2) To Hit DRM—regardless of whether the Gun has pivoted or
changed its CA while in that hex. The Case B DRM is increased to +3 if
the firer is in woods/building/rubble. No weapon may fire more than
once in its AFPh, unless using Opportunity Fire.
A vehicle that changes CA in the MPh is subject to a shot for every MP (all of them) spent. Changing in the PFPh, the gun/vehicle is subject to DFPh, not First Fire.
 

chief2000

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Now, something related to this - suppose there is a tank (it is not CE) with its VCA and TCA facing in the opposite direction of infantry squads that attempt to sneak up on its rear in the MPh so they can later take it on in CCV. Can the AFV change its TCA or VCA (while suffering the associated penalties) to confront the squads so that they will suffer defensive fire? In real life I wonder if that would even be possible in most cases unless the AFV is CE.
 

johnl

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They can change TCA or VCA or both and fire as Defensive First Fire. They will have to pay the Case A DRM either on the IFT, for MGs, or on the To Hit table, for ordnance.
 

chief2000

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The reason I got confused is that according to 2.4 and 2.401, vehicle motion attempts (which would include TCA changes) during an enemy ground units MPh can only be made if the ground unit entered that vehicle's LOS. This led me to believe that no TCA change could be made since the squads are coming in outside the vehicle's LOS.
 

Eagle4ty

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Yes it allows one to attempt a Motion attempt to change a CA but it is not necessary to attempt to go into Motion to do so as one may change its CA (TCA or VCA) to fire its MA/MGs as defensive fire without going into Motion.
 

chief2000

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ok. Bottom line - BU or not, a squad approaching from the rear will be seen and fired on in its MPh. Thanks again. Just trying to nail this down even though my logic says that the crew wouldn't spot them if the CT AFV is BU without LOS to the squads (how's that for ASLese?).
 

Philippe D.

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I don't know about the real-life crew, but in ASL, a BU AFV traces LOS all around - even at night, though with reduced NVR.
 

chief2000

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Thanks, Philippe! I am not sure what the designers were thinking when they allowed this but they are certainly a lot smarter than I am so I will smartly salute and carry out my orders.
 

johnl

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ASL has many reality benders - transparent AFV's, walls and hedges that cannot be damaged, etc. These were all deemed necessary by the developers to make the game playable, I think. Sometimes they may have gone a little overboard but we learn to live with it.
 

gorkowskij

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Several WWII tank models had vision slits/periscopes positioned to enable all-around vision while buttoned up.
 

chief2000

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True. Despite some of the reality issues, it is the best game in town of its kind and I never get tired of it. There is always some compromise that has to be made between playability and realism so I just have to tip my hat to the designers and gurus.
 

gorkowskij

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That's why we use dice rolls for things like CC vs AFV. You can't pin down all these details with complete certainty every time, but ASL does a good job of getting close enough most of the time.
 
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