Changing CA in bypass: which hex?

jrv

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If Defensive First Fired upon or Immobilized before it can complete
its move, it is considered to be at the same CAFP and Target Facing last occupied before the VCA change. (D2.33)

....Perry


A vehicle is in bypass of a hex (the "old" hex). It spends one MP to change CA and enters bypass of a "new" hex. This might be on a hexside parallel one of the "old" hex's hexsides, or it might be on a hexside that radiates from the "old" hex. The vehicle can be attacked on the one MP at the vertex where its CAFP was when it changed CA. In which hex is the one MP for CA change considered spent, the "old" hex or the "new" hex? This has implications for range when attacked on the CA change MP, which hex can use CC-RF, whether a BU OT vehicle can be attacked by small arms, etc.

JR
 

jrv

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I'm not sure this answer directly addresses the question, but I guess that it means that the MP for changing CA is spent in the old hex and not the new one.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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I'm not sure this answer directly addresses the question, but I guess that it means that the MP for changing CA is spent in the old hex and not the new one.

JR
I believe the sequence of events noted in D2.33 example bears this out as well.
 

jrv

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I believe the sequence of events noted in D2.33 example bears this out as well.
That again says the one MP is spent, but it doesn't say which hex it should be considered spent in. The MP is spent at the vertex, but the vertex is part of three hexes. It is highly unlikely that the MP is spent in the sideways-ajoining hex, but at least to me it's not clear whether the MP is spent in the current hex or the next hex without the facing changing.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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Definitively one of the more important one of the 'Perry Sez'.

And a reasonable judgement, too, IMHO.

von Marwitz
 

klasmalmstrom

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I don't really see how it could be any other way...since the tank is sort of moved back to how it was before the VCA change, why would it be considered to be in the next hex, when no MP has been spent to enter the next hex, ymmv.
 

Philippe D.

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Well, if I remember correctly, sometimes an Infantry unit will retroactively move back to a previous position after doing several Bypass movements, if it turns out it cannot enter its final destination (say, Bypass of a building that is occupied by a concealed unit, into another building that is also occupied) - even after taking Defensive First Fire along the way.

Of course, AFV movement is different, and the way I understand Perry's answer, you don't retroactively move your AFV back to its previous position, and attack it in its previous hex instead. Not that suprising, of course.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Of course, AFV movement is different, and the way I understand Perry's answer, you don't retroactively move your AFV back to its previous position, and attack it in its previous hex instead. Not that suprising, of course.
I don't think that is what the question is about....it is about what hex it is in after it spends the 1 MP to turn VCA and is attacked on that 1 MP. It will be attacked as it was before the VCA change, and I don't see how it could not be in the same hex it wants to leave in the situation.
 

Philippe D.

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Yes, actually, reading the complete question and answer again, you're right. Since the MP expenditure is still a single one, the alternative answer would mean the whole MP expenditure (turning CA and moving to the next hexside) would take place in the new hex.

So, in effect, the MP expenditure is still a single one, but First Fire opportunities against it are separated into two steps - first MP, in previous facing/hex/CAFP, and any remaining MP, in the new facing/hex/CAFP. Right? (Does this include the sequentialization of fire attacks? if Firer #1 fires on the last MP [at the new CAFP], is it now too late for Firer #2 to fire on the first MP at the previous position?)
 

klasmalmstrom

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I would think the VCA change and further movement are two separate MP expenditures.
 

jrv

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The expenditure could be in the new hex if that is what the rules deem to be so. The rules could then put the wreck/immobilized vehicle back in the original hex if they so desired. That is what it means to be rules.

Most additional expenditures occur in the new hex, e.g. crossing bocage, except when the rules say otherwise, e.g. crossing bocage but bog [B9.54]. The rowhouse bypass rule makes it very plain that the bypass expenditure is in the old hex. This shows a similar question occurred to someone in another context. The CA change rules don't have any such explicit statement, and the question arose in my mind. I wanted to have an explicit statement here too.

JR
 
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