CG organizational advice

RevJJ

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Sorry if this is long. Home sick today and trying to keep my mind off of it.

ASL play in my local area has dribbled to a crawl. We've had players move, go on sabbatical like that bum Wolkey (though we're still having fun getting drunk and playing Pandemic Legacy and other games), quit playing altogether, or have more family matters to attend too leaving less time for ASL. It's been the latter situation me and one of my mates, Rob Wirthlin, have been in. For nearly a year it's been just me an him playing locally but even then, we both have changing, complicated, family schedules and are finding less time to play. I love playing Rob. He's a damn good player who just won his first tournament, and a good friend. We have a great time together.

So if it is just going to be me and Rob playing for the foreseeable future (I won't do VASL), I'm thinking about proposing we go in for the long haul and do a CG. We both started two separate ill fated team CGs a few years where we had players drop out early on. One of those was CGIV from VotG. That one didn't get past the planning stages. As we, the "Russians", were doing our initial on-map setup, my partner dropped out leaving 3 v 1 (the Germans were going to rotate players out). All the German players, including Rob, had already agreed and done their purchases and knew the attack plan. For one to defect to the Russian side would mean going back to the drawing board completely so we scrapped it.

Despite it's size, I'm considering suggesting to Rob he and I play VotG CGIV for several reasons:

1. It's pretty bad a$$ both historically and game wise. We were excited to play it originally. I've been reading Mike McGrath's CGIV article in Journal 11 and it's getting me jonesing again for the experience.
2. Rob and I played a lot of VotG scenarios, including night scenarios, to prep for the CG last time. In fact, we're planning on playing VotG27 "Drama, the Park, and Deadly Things" from Journal 11 this weekend to bone up on VotG SSRs, terrain, etc (it's been a while since we've played any VotG scenarios).
3. Rob and I were on opposite teams and if we did share our plans with each other, it's surely been washed away by subsequent years of boozing ASL play (we play, and drink, a little bit of everything). Because we've been through the initial planning for the first scenario once before, and since we're playing the same sides, we can get up and playing quickly I believe.

When I say "in it for the long haul", I'm meaning possibly years at the rate we can play and the size of the CG. One of us might move, have to stop playing altogether, who knows. But it might be a nice foray into different ASL for me especially. I've never gotten past the initial scenario of a CG since getting back into the hobby 5 years ago. It's been strictly scenarios, including a tournament, which I love because of the variety but I may be ready for a change.

One of the challenges to pulling this off will be organizational. Neither Rob or I, in our current domiciles, can leave a CG up for an extended amount of time. I have a 5 year old with special needs and my once large game room is mostly a play area and physical/occupational therapy area for my son now. I have a corner for my large game table which will more be more than adequate for the map, but I can't leave the CG up on it for the long term. Rob has kids older than mine and more of them. He can't leave a CG up at his place either.

So, we would need develop a method of recording/storing the CG which would also lend itself to quick setup. I don't have room at my place to physically pick up the map with counters on-board to store so we need to do it a different way. Before I rack my brain on this, I could use some advice. Some of you I'm sure have developed methods to do this. In fact I remember listening to a 2HS episode years ago where the SoCal ASL group had an ongoing RB campaign that they set up and took down on a regular basis. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

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So, we would need develop a method of recording/storing the CG which would also lend itself to quick setup. I don't have room at my place to physically pick up the map with counters on-board to store so we need to do it a different way. Before I rack my brain on this, I could use some advice. Some of you I'm sure have developed methods to do this. In fact I remember listening to a 2HS episode years ago where the SoCal ASL group had an ongoing RB campaign that they set up and took down on a regular basis. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
My brother and I go months sometimes in between CG days, we do leave it up at times but others we have switched "home" fields just so one person is not driving all the time to the others house. When we do this we simply put the map situation into VASL and "transport" it to the other house. Pretty simple and elegant actually.

We are in this situation right now, having stopped KGP for Christmas and his promotion screwing up his schedule...

I need to now setup at my house from the VASL game I saved.

Works pretty well. He scans the map telling me what is in every hex, row by row and then we set it up again.
 

jrv

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One thing that might work for taking apart/setting up a scenario quickly is a set of containers where you can put each stack (and perhaps sub-stack) from each hex. For instance if you used containers like these:



you could work your way across the board putting each stack in a bin, then mark the bin with a hex number (/level/whatever) with a china marker or an erasable marker. When you go to set up, reverse the process. You might split some stacks up to show SW possession, CX, or whatever. You might also use plastic bags within each bin for the same purpose: 2x2 zips are cheap (https://www.amazon.com/Zipper-Poly-Resealable-Plastic-Shipping/dp/B002EDINF0). The picture is from here: http://www.chessex.com/Dice/countertray.htm. You would probably have to do better price-wise to make it work for a cg.

JR
 

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We are playing Operation Veritable at the moment, and my opponent has a "table", basically a big board without legs, that hangs from the ceiling on four connected pulleys. The map fits comfortably on it, and when we finish for the evening, this "table" can simply be pulled up under the ceiling, only to be lowered weeks later when we continue.
This may sound unstable, but we are playing on it for months now, without any incidents. Even big stacks survive the procedure.
 

RevJJ

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My brother and I go months sometimes in between CG days, we do leave it up at times but others we have switched "home" fields just so one person is not driving all the time to the others house. When we do this we simply put the map situation into VASL and "transport" it to the other house. Pretty simple and elegant actually.

We are in this situation right now, having stopped KGP for Christmas and his promotion screwing up his schedule...

I need to now setup at my house from the VASL game I saved.

Works pretty well. He scans the map telling me what is in every hex, row by row and then we set it up again.
I don't play VASL but I have used it to mock up defenses before. One question, how do you and your brother deal with concealment when you're recording and setting each other's units back up on the map?
 

RevJJ

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One thing that might work for taking apart/setting up a scenario quickly is a set of containers where you can put each stack (and perhaps sub-stack) from each hex. For instance if you used containers like these:



you could work your way across the board putting each stack in a bin, then mark the bin with a hex number (/level/whatever) with a china marker or an erasable marker. When you go to set up, reverse the process. You might split some stacks up to show SW possession, CX, or whatever. You might also use plastic bags within each bin for the same purpose: 2x2 zips are cheap (https://www.amazon.com/Zipper-Poly-Resealable-Plastic-Shipping/dp/B002EDINF0). The picture is from here: http://www.chessex.com/Dice/countertray.htm. You would probably have to do better price-wise to make it work for a cg.

JR
I've done a similar tray method before for large scenarios using cheap 20 compartment jewerly/bead storage boxes I get from Hobby Lobby. I usually mark out a grid of 20 spaces on a piece of printer paper and record what's going in each compartment and where it is on the map (hex/location) though this method seems too unwieldy for a CG. I like the baggy idea though I don't want to be busted for possession with the intent to distribute ASL ;)
Seriously though, they could be coded for levels easily enough with adhesive colored dots, etc.
 

RevJJ

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We are playing Operation Veritable at the moment, and my opponent has a "table", basically a big board without legs, that hangs from the ceiling on four connected pulleys. The map fits comfortably on it, and when we finish for the evening, this "table" can simply be pulled up under the ceiling, only to be lowered weeks later when we continue.
This may sound unstable, but we are playing on it for months now, without any incidents. Even big stacks survive the procedure.
Dude, I'd like to see that. Can you get us a pic?
 

Philippe D.

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I don't play VASL but I have used it to mock up defenses before. One question, how do you and your brother deal with concealment when you're recording and setting each other's units back up on the map?
I haven't tried this (and I do play VASL), but if you're worried about the concealed units each player can record his own units in a VASL file, with just a ? for the opposing concealed stacks. Then the home player can use cloaking when setting up the opponent's stacks. This should reasonably preserve secrecy, and not take too long a time (other than the fact that setting up a CG battle can take a long time anyway).
 

WuWei

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Dude, I'd like to see that. Can you get us a pic?
table.jpg
Really, there is not a lot to see in this picture, but I have no better one at hand. We have a game schedules for next week. If I think of it at the time, I will take some pictures of the pulley design.
 

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One of the challenges to pulling this off will be organizational. Neither Rob or I, in our current domiciles, can leave a CG up for an extended amount of time. I have a 5 year old with special needs and my once large game room is mostly a play area and physical/occupational therapy area for my son now. I have a corner for my large game table which will more be more than adequate for the map, but I can't leave the CG up on it for the long term. Rob has kids older than mine and more of them. He can't leave a CG up at his place either.

So, we would need develop a method of recording/storing the CG which would also lend itself to quick setup. I don't have room at my place to physically pick up the map with counters on-board to store so we need to do it a different way. Before I rack my brain on this, I could use some advice. Some of you I'm sure have developed methods to do this. In fact I remember listening to a 2HS episode years ago where the SoCal ASL group had an ongoing RB campaign that they set up and took down on a regular basis. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Take a look at Journal 9, page 62. Article titled "the Red Barricades Project". If you don't have it, drop me a PM and I'll make a copy of it for you.

Additionally, VASL can be your friend here. You and your opponent can each have a VASL file that shows only your forces along with any terrain features, even the opponents known forces. It's a great way of planning the beginning of your next turn/scenario.
 

RevJJ

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Take a look at Journal 9, page 62. Article titled "the Red Barricades Project". If you don't have it, drop me a PM and I'll make a copy of it for you.

Additionally, VASL can be your friend here. You and your opponent can each have a VASL file that shows only your forces along with any terrain features, even the opponents known forces. It's a great way of planning the beginning of your next turn/scenario.
I do have Journal 9 and now remember where I first heard of SoCal's RB technique. Right under my nose. Thanks, that'll help.
 

RevJJ

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"I won't do VASL" - if it was not for VASL I'd play very little if at all - most of what I have played over the years has been VASL and I might have given up on ASL has it not existed.

VASL has kept many players in the game.
My resistance to VASL is not about dissing the value of VASL. I'm "pro" VASL. I'm happy it exists and that players, such as yourself, are able to play opponents regardless of location, etc. The merits of VASL are well accepted by the community and I'm not challenging that. I don't want to play VASL for a very simple reason. I work as a systems administrator and have my face buried in computers all day long. I don't want to play ASL that way. I came back to ASL after playing computer games exclusively for 15 years specifically for ftf play and the tactile feel of game components. It's a preference I'm not willing to compromise. We humans aren't built to sit and stare at a computer monitor all day. I tolerate it for my occupation but not in my hobbies. I'd rather not play. If local play completely dried up, I'd wait for one of the ASL players I know in the Seattle area to travel my way (I live in eastern Washington state), or vice-versa, or I'd strive to make a trip every couple of years to one of the ASL tournaments in my state to see folks and get my games in.
 

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I don't play VASL but I have used it to mock up defenses before. One question, how do you and your brother deal with concealment when you're recording and setting each other's units back up on the map?
Sorry we don't take it down during a scenario, only after a scenario.
 

volgaG68

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Something I did years ago when not wanting to take down a monster scenario, and having no other place to put it. I put the map setup on a piece of paneling and slid it under the bed. If you have no small pets running loose in the house (or toddlers), this works quite well. It could be a large poster-frame for that matter.
 

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Something I did years ago when not wanting to take down a monster scenario, and having no other place to put it. I put the map setup on a piece of paneling and slid it under the bed. If you have no small pets running loose in the house (or toddlers), this works quite well. It could be a large poster-frame for that matter.
I also almost always set up my games on plywood-like sheets (actually, the same material as an old-fashioned clipboard is made of) - I think that I found these at Home Depot. This way I can do just as volgaG68 suggests and keep my wife happy.
 

RevJJ

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Something I did years ago when not wanting to take down a monster scenario, and having no other place to put it. I put the map setup on a piece of paneling and slid it under the bed. If you have no small pets running loose in the house (or toddlers), this works quite well. It could be a large poster-frame for that matter.
In my case, the game board would have to be brought up the from the basement, navigated to a bedroom, and slid under a bed. Hard to do without interrupting the map state considering the counter density and stack sizes I suspect we'd see.

Magnetized set? I've seen one used @ the Enfilade! ASL tournament in Olymipa WA that Sam Belcher runs. Al Davis (I think it was him) had a set and was playing the RB version of the Commissar's House from the '92 Annual. They had massive stacks that could survive direct hits from rolling dice, table bumps, etc. Wolkey bought a magnetized set off Al. He loves it. Maybe that's the way to go. Spend the time and effort up front to magnetize the counters instead of the time recording, striking, and storing the game states over the course of the CG. Easier to store if the two map halves are each on their own piece of sheet metal. One could go on top of my basement freezer for instance. The other on top bins in the store room.
 

RevJJ

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Thanks to everyone so far that have given me feedback and suggestions, both privately and publicly.
 

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Great thread! This has gotten me excited to play a CG. Our last attempt as a group was actually a play test for Red Factories and that unfortunately was a bust.

What about a mini CG from Lone Canuck? Jeff and I played a DIY full ASL version of "Decision of Elst". It was very fun but I think the full ASL rules may have affected then balance.

Inputting into VASL sounds tedious. I like the idea of marshaling cards into an empty Plano box. I think that we did that once for a monster that took a couple of sessions.
 
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