CdG - Really Dinant HASL + bonus material?

[DVexile]

Sorry for the semi-provocative thread title, but I'm curious how those with much more experience than myself view what's in Croix de Guerre 2nd Edition.

To be clear, I'm not trying to levy some sort of "value" judgement based on price or anything as such. I'm more interested about what in CdG is actually unique to CdG. Obviously different people would weight different amounts of "value" to different chunks of the module just like is the case with many other core modules. One person's chrome is another's necessity.

I'll throw out my naive conclusions from reading various posts and reviews. I write these largely in ignorance (primarily an SK player at the moment), so please by all means contradict or correct them. That's really the point of my post - I'm guessing I've got some of this wrong and looking for other's input on what I've overlooked or missed.

Counters

• About four and a half counter sheets of French/Free French/Vichy infantry and SW that are really just British and Allied Minor counters in French colors. Essentially totally optional to use if you already had FKaC and DB. A critic might just call them chrome.
• About two counter sheets of actual French vehicles and ordnance (these are spread in blocks across a few counter sheets) which I think are unique to CdG. There are also some American and British lend lease vehicles in green and tan.
• About four and a half counter sheets are for the Dinant HASL, a mixture of German infantry, German vehicles and various informational markers.

Geo Maps

• Just two, both available for individual purchase at present.

Overlays

• None, the 1st Edition CdG overlays will need to be bought in the Overlay Bundle currently on pre-order (and I think some, but not all, of the CdG1 overlays now actually appear in other core modules as well).

Rule Book Sheets

• Various updated sheets for those still with the now out of print binder version of the ASLRB. Already incorporated in the eASLRB and pASLRB. (HASL rule sheets listed later in the post).

Scenarios

• 8 from the 1st edition of CdG
• 22 "out of print" scenarios, I believe a very large fraction are available via old Generals or through purchasing the electronic ASL Journal and ASL Annual bundles.
• 11 Dinant HASL scenarios

Dinant HASL

• Nice looking HASL maps
• HASL specific rules pages
• Campaign Games
• The already mentioned 4.5 counter sheets
• The already mentioned 11 HASL scenarios

If you remove the Dinant HASL material, assume you don't need duplicate infantry/SW counters from other modules in French blue, and already have the scenarios from the General, ASLJ and ASLA back issues then it appears you are left with about 10 scenarios and two counter sheets of French vehicles that are unique to CdG2.

So that's the basis of the thread title - it actually seems like the Dinant HASL is a big part of what makes CdG2 interesting. As a HASL it also seems to have a fair bit of uniqueness to it. It isn't yet another urban slug-fest HASL. It has the interesting river crossing and a fair bit of open ground with elevation.

Again, this isn't a criticism of CdG2. Some folks clearly want the various blue French counters instead of pushing around British Beige or Minor Green. Gathering up older out of print scenarios is something other recent core modules have done and is sensible. The overlay thing is a bit weird, CdG having been published well before HL which did include many overlays (though to be fair overlays are perhaps more integral to desert terrain scenarios) and I don't get the sense overlay printing costs are high based on the price for the bundle. Anyway, CdG2 does have a lot in it - I'm not trying to say it is overpriced or of low value. It just seems that the HASL is actually a very significant chunk of what makes CdG2 an interesting module even though it is a "core module".

Am I all wet here and missing something big? Or would you agree that the Dinant HASL is actually a much bigger part of CdG than has been typical with other core modules?

 

[Gunner Scott]

Buy the module and what you do not want from it just sell it off. I sold off my chrome french counters and made back 60 bucks. So it made the module much more cheaper in the long run.

 

[Wayne]

The only precedent I recall was inclusion of RB in one of the BV reprints.

I'm liking the Core+HASL makeup of the CdG reprint.

I'd have bought them separately. The combination felt to me like Good Value.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I would have bought the French core module with or without the CG .. and I did. I got CdG by itself & CdG2. Like any core modules, it enables a lot of scenarios, core or TPP .. plus it allows the playing of LFT INOR, etc.

Note that I don't buy modules for counters or even for the maps. I am a 99% VASL player.

 

[pensatl1962]

I bought the module without hesitation and I'm glad that I did. At a minimum, I got new French counters to replace my old ones, some updated scenarios, and a few new geoboards. The HASL was very fun to play, even if I only played the scenarios and not the CG at this point. The scenarios utilize some rules and tactics that we don't normally come across in other published scenarios. All-in-all I thought it was a very good purchase. And one intangible to consider - while every has their own perspective of value and resources, if nothing else I like to support the publishers of ASL products to help keep the hobby alive and thriving.

 

[Actionjick]

I bought the module without hesitation and I'm glad that I did. At a minimum, I got new French counters to replace my old ones, some updated scenarios, and a few new geoboards. The HASL was very fun to play, even if I only played the scenarios and not the CG at this point. The scenarios utilize some rules and tactics that we don't normally come across in other published scenarios. All-in-all I thought it was a very good purchase. And one intangible to consider - while every has their own perspective of value and resources, if nothing else I like to support the publishers of ASL products to help keep the hobby alive and thriving.

Well said.

 

[phlegm027]

CdG + Dinant =

The original CdG was not a large module. CdG2 is real;y CdG-Hulk.
I look at CdG2 and see one of MMP’s best products as far as bang for your buck goes. You get a bunch of scenarios that were put out over the years and the updated original CdG scenarios. You also get counters for the Free French, Vichy and counters for a French HASL.
I might be a tad prejudiced But I think that the Dinant HASL is something that not all ASL players will like. But they will be missing some interesting situations .

Dinant has what I call “sneaky complexity.” There are several things that differ from the ASL that one has been used to. Some of these changes are minor and some are a bit bigger. They make the HASL play differently than others.
No Vehicle Bypass Freeze was perhaps the biggest change.
Making it harder to get starshells was also a large change to the night scenarios. A little +1 really makes night fighting a different hound altogether.
Rommel . . . Just when you think there’s no way. . . Rommel!

Then there is Nadir’s map.

 

[DVexile]

Buy the module and what you do not want from it just sell it off. I sold off my chrome french counters and made back 60 bucks. So it made the module much more cheaper in the long run.

Yes, that's certainly a sensible approach if some of the chrome is not of interest. Especially for folks who might already have CdG1 but want the HASL.

I'm liking the Core+HASL makeup of the CdG reprint.

I'd have bought them separately. The combination felt to me like Good Value.

For me as a newbie something like CdG does seem of high value as a combined package. Especially if a larger package makes it more likely that a reprint of the French and a new HASL are likely to even be printed at all. (I have no idea if that's the case, but I've read some people speculate as such).

As a new player I have to say that while there are of course pretty extreme dependencies for some scenarios based on the long history of ASL that MMPs refactoring of the core modules over the years seems to have made things a fair bit more manageable. You can play a lot with just a few modules.

Note that I don't buy modules for counters or even for the maps. I am a 99% VASL player.

I feel like this community is a bit unique in having found a happy compromise in enabling play through VASL while still respecting the intellectual property represented by scenarios and such. It feels like a win-win for the players and the designers/manufacturers that I don't often see elsewhere.

Which reminds me, at some point I need to take you up on your blanket offer on your site to do a VASL PBEM game - as a new player PBEM seems like a gentle low stress way to get some play in.

And one intangible to consider - while every has their own perspective of value and resources, if nothing else I like to support the publishers of ASL products to help keep the hobby alive and thriving.

You know, I feel quite lucky entering the ASL world at the moment. There is actually so much that is now in print compared to the droughts of the past. Yanks is an obvious 2nd purchase module that reprinted just as I showed up. I personally love deserts, so naively I think I'll eventually want to try DTO (even though that doesn't seem very popular) and lo and behold Hollow Legions should now be available for a good while. The "intro" HASL Hatten In Flames is still available, the "must buy" Red Barricades still available as part of Red Factories, Rising Sun recently reprinted and so on.

Compared to many other hobbies the amount of "time value" one gets out of any ASL product is very favorable. So yes, keeping MMP in business is another good rationalization for spending. I'm pretty good at rationalizing already, but I'm always open to more excuses!

And again, to be clear, my original post was not at all about CdG not being a good value - more about its seemingly different balance in content.

I look at CdG2 and see one of MMP’s best products as far as bang for your buck goes. You get a bunch of scenarios that were put out over the years and the updated original CdG scenarios. You also get counters for the Free French, Vichy and counters for a French HASL.

Wow, the man himself! As a side question, do you feel bundling a HASL like Dinant with a core module made it more likely the HASL would end up in print in the end?

I might be a tad prejudiced But I think that the Dinant HASL is something that not all ASL players will like. But they will be missing some interesting situations. Dinant has what I call “sneaky complexity.” There are several things that differ from the ASL that one has been used to. Some of these changes are minor and some are a bit bigger. They make the HASL play differently than others. No Vehicle Bypass Freeze was perhaps the biggest change. Making it harder to get starshells was also a large change to the night scenarios. A little +1 really makes night fighting a different hound altogether.

Thanks for your comments! I'm too unfamiliar with HASLs to have evaluated the nitty-gritty of something like Dinant other than to have made the very coarse judgment that it sure looks "different" from a number of the others. Neat to hear from a designer about some of the unique rules details. It is that kind of uniqueness that makes me think I'd like Dinant and thus, for me at least, makes it a big value add to CdG2.

Rommel . . . Just when you think there’s no way. . . Rommel!

I've only read a handful of WWII history books over the years, but I did know of Rommel's reputation as a "hands on" officer dashing about the battlefield. When I read that the HASL included some of that effect in the rules I thought that was pretty clever and entertaining. Definitely the kind of "chrome" that I think I'd like the "shine" of.

Then there is Nadir’s map.

I freely admit having been a sucker for maps of all kinds since I was a kid. Actually one of the pulls to full ASL from SK for me is the more varied terrain and thus snazzier looking maps.

Thanks again everyone for taking to the time to read and then share your thoughts!

 

[Actionjick]

Yes, that's certainly a sensible approach if some of the chrome is not of interest. Especially for folks who might already have CdG1 but want the HASL.



For me as a newbie something like CdG does seem of high value as a combined package. Especially if a larger package makes it more likely that a reprint of the French and a new HASL are likely to even be printed at all. (I have no idea if that's the case, but I've read some people speculate as such).

As a new player I have to say that while there are of course pretty extreme dependencies for some scenarios based on the long history of ASL that MMPs refactoring of the core modules over the years seems to have made things a fair bit more manageable. You can play a lot with just a few modules.



I feel like this community is a bit unique in having found a happy compromise in enabling play through VASL while still respecting the intellectual property represented by scenarios and such. It feels like a win-win for the players and the designers/manufacturers that I don't often see elsewhere.

Which reminds me, at some point I need to take you up on your blanket offer on your site to do a VASL PBEM game - as a new player PBEM seems like a gentle low stress way to get some play in.



You know, I feel quite lucky entering the ASL world at the moment. There is actually so much that is now in print compared to the droughts of the past. Yanks is an obvious 2nd purchase module that reprinted just as I showed up. I personally love deserts, so naively I think I'll eventually want to try DTO (even though that doesn't seem very popular) and lo and behold Hollow Legions should now be available for a good while. The "intro" HASL Hatten In Flames is still available, the "must buy" Red Barricades still available as part of Red Factories, Rising Sun recently reprinted and so on.

Compared to many other hobbies the amount of "time value" one gets out of any ASL product is very favorable. So yes, keeping MMP in business is another good rationalization for spending. I'm pretty good at rationalizing already, but I'm always open to more excuses!

And again, to be clear, my original post was not at all about CdG not being a good value - more about its seemingly different balance in content.



Wow, the man himself! As a side question, do you feel bundling a HASL like Dinant with a core module made it more likely the HASL would end up in print in the end?



Thanks for your comments! I'm too unfamiliar with HASLs to have evaluated the nitty-gritty of something like Dinant other than to have made the very coarse judgment that it sure looks "different" from a number of the others. Neat to hear from a designer about some of the unique rules details. It is that kind of uniqueness that makes me think I'd like Dinant and thus, for me at least, makes it a big value add to CdG2.



I've only read a handful of WWII history books over the years, but I did know of Rommel's reputation as a "hands on" officer dashing about the battlefield. When I read that the HASL included some of that effect in the rules I thought that was pretty clever and entertaining. Definitely the kind of "chrome" that I think I'd like the "shine" of.



I freely admit having been a sucker for maps of all kinds since I was a kid. Actually one of the pulls to full ASL from SK for me is the more varied terrain and thus snazzier looking maps.

Thanks again everyone for taking to the time to read and then share your thoughts!

IIRC Rommel was a 10-3 in The Dinant Bridgehead scenario wbitd with some rather special abilities. Great scenario!

 

[phlegm027]

CdG + Dinant =

The original CdG was not a large module. CdG2 is real;y CdG-Hulk.
I look at CdG2 and see one of MMP’s best products as far as bang for your buck goes. You get a bunch of scenarios that were put out over the years and the updated original CdG scenarios. You also get counters for the Free French, Vichy and counters for a French HASL.
I might be a tad prejudiced But I think that the Dinant HASL is something that not all ASL players will like. But they will be missing some interesting situations .

Dinant has what I call “sneaky complexity.” There are several things that differ from the ASL that one has been used to. Some of these changes are minor and some are a bit bigger. They make the HASL play differently than others.
No Vehicle Bypass Freeze was perhaps the biggest change.
Making it harder to get starshells was also a large change to the night scenarios. A little +1 really makes night fighting a different hound altogether.
Rommel . . . Just when you think there’s no way. . . Rommel!

Then there is Nadir’s map.

IIRC Rommel was a 10-3 in The Dinant Bridgehead scenario wbitd with some rather special abilities. Great scenario!

IIRC Rommel was a 10-3 in The Dinant Bridgehead scenario wbitd with some rather special abilities. Great scenario!

In Dinant Rommel is a 10-2 leader. BUT!! He cannot direct any type of attack.He has traded in his gun for the ability to be able to aid units within 2 hexes and adjacent to him building pontoon bridges and ferries to get the Panzer Division across the Meuse. I’m always interested in hearing Rommel stories. He can also use his modifier to aid in rally for units within 2 hexes. You gotta try to keep him healthy or the Germans get bad things in their permanent record. Just remember . . . He can’t use his -2 on any IFT or TH DR.

Q2. As a side question, do you feel bundling a HASL like Dinant with a core module made it more likely the HASL would end up in print in the end?

I knew Dinant would see print as soon as I saw Nadir’s map. I had been playing on my hand drawn version for 10+ years. The scenarios I had for my map all had to be redone to Nadir’s map. We had to go back and start play testing from step 1 again.

Carl got himself roped into doing the CG for Dinant. How that happened is a long story with a lot of WTF moments and bitter tears. But I was lucky. I had gotten two people (Nadir and Carl) who put up with me coming into their lives for the next 10 years. But Carl wrote out one of the most interesting and fun CG‘s in the system. Nadir took to finding map related items that kept him busy for 10 years.

I think that Dinant getting hooked up with CdG was a great thing. I had 11 scenarios and a 5 scenario CG that was a tweener. It was somewhere between a boxed HASL module and a Journal module. By hooking it up with CdG2 it got the counters and maps Dinant needed to make it Into a box. I didn’t know if it had enough material in it to be published as a stand alone product. Now I think if MMP decides to split it off to print it again it would probably sell. You have to ask the lads at MMP that question.

There are about 7 copies of CdG2 left in the MMP Climate Controlled Game Cave. This is your Non-Official Start Panic Buying notice.

 

[Actionjick]

In Dinant Rommel is a 10-2 leader. BUT!! He cannot direct any type of attack.He has traded in his gun for the ability to be able to aid units within 2 hexes and adjacent to him building pontoon bridges and ferries to get the Panzer Division across the Meuse. I’m always interested in hearing Rommel stories. He can also use his modifier to aid in rally for units within 2 hexes. You gotta try to keep him healthy or the Germans get bad things in their permanent record. Just remember . . . He can’t use his -2 on any IFT or TH DR.

Q2. As a side question, do you feel bundling a HASL like Dinant with a core module made it more likely the HASL would end up in print in the end?

I knew Dinant would see print as soon as I saw Nadir’s map. I had been playing on my hand drawn version for 10+ years. The scenarios I had for my map all had to be redone to Nadir’s map. We had to go back and start play testing from step 1 again.

Carl got himself roped into doing the CG for Dinant. How that happened is a long story with a lot of WTF moments and bitter tears. But I was lucky. I had gotten two people (Nadir and Carl) who put up with me coming into their lives for the next 10 years. But Carl wrote out one of the most interesting and fun CG‘s in the system. Nadir took to finding map related items that kept him busy for 10 years.

I think that Dinant getting hooked up with CdG was a great thing. I had 11 scenarios and a 5 scenario CG that was a tweener. It was somewhere between a boxed HASL module and a Journal module. By hooking it up with CdG2 it got the counters and maps Dinant needed to make it Into a box. I didn’t know if it had enough material in it to be published as a stand alone product. Now I think if MMP decides to split it off to print it again it would probably sell. You have to ask the lads at MMP that question.

There are about 7 copies of CdG2 left in the MMP Climate Controlled Game Cave. This is your Non-Official Start Panic Buying notice.

Very nice to hear from someone involved in a multi year effort. I loved that scenario but there has been a lot of refreshments that have flowed under the Dinant bridge since I played it last. My recall is really spotty.

I was quite into Rommel for a while. Our small group of SL gamers was known as ERAS, the Erwin Rommel Admiration Society. By small I mean three of us!

I am sure I bought into the myth and legend but wtf.

Somewhere in my books I have Rommel: Papers. And I read Infantry Attacks. Good stuff.

Congratulations on seeing your work come to fruition. It's a good feeling and I was fortunate enough to feel that way with WOA. Longtime DTO fan in a large part due to my reading of Rommel.

Good gunnin to you!

 

[Actionjick]

In Dinant Rommel is a 10-2 leader. BUT!! He cannot direct any type of attack.He has traded in his gun for the ability to be able to aid units within 2 hexes and adjacent to him building pontoon bridges and ferries to get the Panzer Division across the Meuse. I’m always interested in hearing Rommel stories. He can also use his modifier to aid in rally for units within 2 hexes. You gotta try to keep him healthy or the Germans get bad things in their permanent record. Just remember . . . He can’t use his -2 on any IFT or TH DR.

Q2. As a side question, do you feel bundling a HASL like Dinant with a core module made it more likely the HASL would end up in print in the end?

I knew Dinant would see print as soon as I saw Nadir’s map. I had been playing on my hand drawn version for 10+ years. The scenarios I had for my map all had to be redone to Nadir’s map. We had to go back and start play testing from step 1 again.

Carl got himself roped into doing the CG for Dinant. How that happened is a long story with a lot of WTF moments and bitter tears. But I was lucky. I had gotten two people (Nadir and Carl) who put up with me coming into their lives for the next 10 years. But Carl wrote out one of the most interesting and fun CG‘s in the system. Nadir took to finding map related items that kept him busy for 10 years.

I think that Dinant getting hooked up with CdG was a great thing. I had 11 scenarios and a 5 scenario CG that was a tweener. It was somewhere between a boxed HASL module and a Journal module. By hooking it up with CdG2 it got the counters and maps Dinant needed to make it Into a box. I didn’t know if it had enough material in it to be published as a stand alone product. Now I think if MMP decides to split it off to print it again it would probably sell. You have to ask the lads at MMP that question.

There are about 7 copies of CdG2 left in the MMP Climate Controlled Game Cave. This is your Non-Official Start Panic Buying notice.

Lol I was obsessed with ferrying a tank across!!

 

[lightspeed]

Sorry for the semi-provocative thread title, but I'm curious how those with much more experience than myself view what's in Croix de Guerre 2nd Edition.
...

That's a really interesting analysis...my initial reaction is to agree with your assessment. One thing that gives me pause is the scenarios.
You are correct in that they were (all?) published previously. Having said that, and I haven't looked, do you know how many have been
updated in a significant way? I'm NCdGH (no CdG handy), so I can't answer my own question.

WRT counters, in the 1st Ed ASLRB, it said specifically to use French counters to represent Allied Minors (or was it the other
way around?). As such, as you pointed out, the counters aren't new at all (well, fonts and colours, and the cross of Lorraine).

Again, a really interesting analysis, and certainly food for thought.

indy

 

[DVexile]

I think that Dinant getting hooked up with CdG was a great thing. I had 11 scenarios and a 5 scenario CG that was a tweener. It was somewhere between a boxed HASL module and a Journal module. By hooking it up with CdG2 it got the counters and maps Dinant needed to make it Into a box. I didn’t know if it had enough material in it to be published as a stand alone product. Now I think if MMP decides to split it off to print it again it would probably sell. You have to ask the lads at MMP that question.

Interesting, thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I'm coming to think that my original thesis should be modified to CdG2 not really being one thing or the other plus a "bonus" but rather a synergistic combination of two equal halves. With the "core" parts of CdG perhaps being a bit lighter weight than other core modules and with Dinant perhaps being a tweener sized HASL the two enabled each other into being produced as a viable high value module.

I am amazed at the amount of time and effort HASL designers put in. Clearly a labor of love. Thanks to all those like you and play testers who make the ASL community better for the rest of us!

There are about 7 copies of CdG2 left in the MMP Climate Controlled Game Cave. This is your Non-Official Start Panic Buying notice.

Lol! Yes, I have a few things in on the shelf that I'm probably years away from ever playing. Followed the "buy when available" advice for those that seemed at some risk of going OoP figuring I can always sell them if in the end I decide not to play them.

Being first shipped around Feb 2020 it is a good question how much supply of CdG2 is left. Do you have any insight into that or were you just being tongue in cheek?

Right now I think Forgotten War is the "oldest" still in print core module having been first shipped around Jan 2018. Armies of Oblivion next around Oct 2018. Most modules seem to last about four years or so before going out of print, so those seem at some risk. Of course much like the stock market, past performance is not an indicator of future performance

One thing that gives me pause is the scenarios. You are correct in that they were (all?) published previously. Having said that, and I haven't looked, do you know how many have been updated in a significant way? I'm NCdGH (no CdG handy), so I can't answer my own question.

That's a really good point. I'm also NCdGH, nor do I have access to all the previous publications at this moment. The MMP website actually lists the original scenario numbers for the 22 previously published scenarios (and then there are the 8 from CdG1 and the 11 new Dinant to get to the 41 total). So yes those 22 "extras" were previously published. They also say they have been updated for "balance and clarity" but whether that's all of them and how significant the changes are would need side by side comparison.

To be clear, in my first post I was sort of playing Devil's advocate for some of the criticism I'd read on the module. For me as a new ASLer having old scenarios freshened up and plopped into the core modules is definitely of value to me personally. Hollow Legions does this in spades with 53 total scenarios including all eight from AP3 (the maps from which are available for individual purchase or in the supplemental map bundle) amongst a host of others from various sources. There are 37 additional scenarios besides the 16 from the original modules that HL is meant to replace.

Thanks for the on point comment!

 

[phlegm027]

The previously published scenarios were looked over by at group comprised of Perry, Chas, Klas M. Carl Ron Duenskie, myself and I believe JR Tracy and his band of merry men from the Fun City ASL Cartel As well as the MMP playtesters Anyone who had played the scenario was asked about their feelings concerning scenario balance. The feeling was try not to change the scenarios a lot. We looked at ROAR records and tried to suggest changes that kept the designers original intent and forces as close to the original as possible. I think Klas and Perry had the final say so on changes and the process went very smoothly and had some very good ASL players involved in it. I don’t think there are any PIGDOG’s left in the previously published scenarios.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

That's a really interesting analysis...my initial reaction is to agree with your assessment. One thing that gives me pause is the scenarios.
You are correct in that they were (all?) published previously. Having said that, and I haven't looked, do you know how many have been
updated in a significant way? I'm NCdGH (no CdG handy), so I can't answer my own question.

17 of the scenarios have been updated....

 

[Vic Provost]

Sorry for the semi-provocative thread title, but I'm curious how those with much more experience than myself view what's in Croix de Guerre 2nd Edition.

To be clear, I'm not trying to levy some sort of "value" judgement based on price or anything as such. I'm more interested about what in CdG is actually unique to CdG. Obviously different people would weight different amounts of "value" to different chunks of the module just like is the case with many other core modules. One person's chrome is another's necessity.

I'll throw out my naive conclusions from reading various posts and reviews. I write these largely in ignorance (primarily an SK player at the moment), so please by all means contradict or correct them. That's really the point of my post - I'm guessing I've got some of this wrong and looking for other's input on what I've overlooked or missed.

Counters

• About four and a half counter sheets of French/Free French/Vichy infantry and SW that are really just British and Allied Minor counters in French colors. Essentially totally optional to use if you already had FKaC and DB. A critic might just call them chrome.
• About two counter sheets of actual French vehicles and ordnance (these are spread in blocks across a few counter sheets) which I think are unique to CdG. There are also some American and British lend lease vehicles in green and tan.
• About four and a half counter sheets are for the Dinant HASL, a mixture of German infantry, German vehicles and various informational markers.

Geo Maps

• Just two, both available for individual purchase at present.

Overlays

• None, the 1st Edition CdG overlays will need to be bought in the Overlay Bundle currently on pre-order (and I think some, but not all, of the CdG1 overlays now actually appear in other core modules as well).

Rule Book Sheets

• Various updated sheets for those still with the now out of print binder version of the ASLRB. Already incorporated in the eASLRB and pASLRB. (HASL rule sheets listed later in the post).

Scenarios

• 8 from the 1st edition of CdG
• 22 "out of print" scenarios, I believe a very large fraction are available via old Generals or through purchasing the electronic ASL Journal and ASL Annual bundles.
• 11 Dinant HASL scenarios

Dinant HASL

• Nice looking HASL maps
• HASL specific rules pages
• Campaign Games
• The already mentioned 4.5 counter sheets
• The already mentioned 11 HASL scenarios

If you remove the Dinant HASL material, assume you don't need duplicate infantry/SW counters from other modules in French blue, and already have the scenarios from the General, ASLJ and ASLA back issues then it appears you are left with about 10 scenarios and two counter sheets of French vehicles that are unique to CdG2.

So that's the basis of the thread title - it actually seems like the Dinant HASL is a big part of what makes CdG2 interesting. As a HASL it also seems to have a fair bit of uniqueness to it. It isn't yet another urban slug-fest HASL. It has the interesting river crossing and a fair bit of open ground with elevation.

Again, this isn't a criticism of CdG2. Some folks clearly want the various blue French counters instead of pushing around British Beige or Minor Green. Gathering up older out of print scenarios is something other recent core modules have done and is sensible. The overlay thing is a bit weird, CdG having been published well before HL which did include many overlays (though to be fair overlays are perhaps more integral to desert terrain scenarios) and I don't get the sense overlay printing costs are high based on the price for the bundle. Anyway, CdG2 does have a lot in it - I'm not trying to say it is overpriced or of low value. It just seems that the HASL is actually a very significant chunk of what makes CdG2 an interesting module even though it is a "core module".

Am I all wet here and missing something big? Or would you agree that the Dinant HASL is actually a much bigger part of CdG than has been typical with other core modules?

Man, you think too much, if you need the French, just buy the module, it you don't, then save your $.

For me this was a no brainer, not only do you get updated everything from the original French module but you also get a fine HASL that Dan Dolan and Carl Nogueira gave a ton of thought and effort into. Great design by Dan and Carl helped get it across the finish line. This is awesome ASL if wanting something from France 40, I would buy it without hesitation if I needed it, good value for your $.

(Plus you get French hero counters for Provost and Morin, we get to kill those guys whenever they appear, LOL!).

 

[Vic Provost]

The previously published scenarios were looked over by at group comprised of Perry, Chas, Klas M. Carl Ron Duenskie, myself and I believe JR Tracy and his band of merry men from the Fun City ASL Cartel As well as the MMP playtesters Anyone who had played the scenario was asked about their feelings concerning scenario balance. The feeling was try not to change the scenarios a lot. We looked at ROAR records and tried to suggest changes that kept the designers original intent and forces as close to the original as possible. I think Klas and Perry had the final say so on changes and the process went very smoothly and had some very good ASL players involved in it. I don’t think there are any PIGDOG’s left in the previously published scenarios.

Those people Dan mentioned are exactly who you want updating things, this is just plain a better product than the original in every way, awesome job by everyone involved.

 

[kcole4001]

The only precedent I recall was inclusion of RB in one of the BV reprints.

I'm liking the Core+HASL makeup of the CdG reprint.

I'd have bought them separately. The combination felt to me like Good Value.

Same here, I already had CdeG from the original print run, so the only reason I bought it was to get Dinant.
They had me at the interesting HASL part of the sales pitch.

The extra French counters will come in handy for Dinant & Green Hell of Inor.
The only downside was having to completely revamp my storage for the poilus.

 

[phlegm027]

The extra French counters will come in handy for Dinant & Green Hell of Inor.
The only downside was having to completely revamp my storage for the poilus.
don’t forget to leave room for the German trucks.
‘