CdG 2nd Edition - components to play all scenarios...

[jrv]

I don't have the skill to use a professional laminator.

I bought a heat laminator plus laminator pockets. You heat up the laminator, put the stuff you want to laminate inside the pocket and feed the pocket through rollers. I don't know if that's a skill exactly. Anyway I haven't added it to my resumé.

I don't know that heat laminators are better or worse than cold laminators. The nice thing about a heat laminator is that it won't adhere until you heat it, and that gives you time to reposition things. I don't know but I suspect that with cold laminators once something touches the glue, that's where it's going to stay.

I also don't laminate the original overlays. I scan them, print copies and laminate the copies. It's a lot more work but if I lose one I can replace it.

JR

 

[Bob Walters]

I bought a heat laminator plus laminator pockets. You heat up the laminator, put the stuff you want to laminate inside the pocket and feed the pocket through rollers. I don't know if that's a skill exactly. Anyway I haven't added it to my resumé.

I don't know that heat laminators are better or worse than cold laminators. The nice thing about a heat laminator is that it won't adhere until you heat it, and that gives you time to reposition things. I don't know but I suspect that with cold laminators once something touches the glue, that's where it's going to stay.

I also don't laminate the original overlays. I scan them, print copies and laminate the copies. It's a lot more work but if I lose one I can replace it.

JR

How well do the edges and reverse sides of boards and overlays come out?

 

[jrv]

How well do the edges and reverse sides of boards and overlays come out?

Not sure what you mean. I put the designation on the reverse side of the overlay, but otherwise I leave it white (saves ink $). I have to run the page through the printer twice, once for each side, but that's a small effort. Aligning the reverse side is easy enough: make a copy of the front layer in your graphics software then flip it. Use that to position the designation text, then hide the reversed layer. I don't copy the existing designation because it's too hard to get the alignment right with the cut-out overlays, but if I hadn't cut them out many years ago it probably wouldn't be too hard to copy the reverse side so you get the official designations. I don't think it would be worth the extra effort myself.

Personally I like the edges to include a clear border. That means cutting out the paper before laminating, then cutting out the lamination with a border. That's a lot of cutting. If you don't want a clear border you could laminate the whole printed sheet. The paper would come to the edge, making them more vulnerable to water damage (perhaps slightly; I don't know how water-proof they are with a clear border), but you don't have to cut the overlays out twice.

JR

 

[Gordon]

Personally I like the edges to include a clear border. That means cutting out the paper before laminating, then cutting out the lamination with a border. That's a lot of cutting. If you don't want a clear border you could laminate the whole printed sheet. The paper would come to the edge, making them more vulnerable to water damage (perhaps slightly; I don't know how water-proof they are with a clear border), but you don't have to cut the overlays out twice.

JR

I'm actually curious about this to possibly laminate my "Up Front!" cards. What machines have you used and/or would recommend? For something like the Up Front cards, would you pre-cut the sheets for the size of the cards or try to laminate a bunch of cards at once and then cut out the individual cards?

TIA

 

[Bob Walters]

Not sure what you mean. I put the designation on the reverse side of the overlay, but otherwise I leave it white (saves ink $). I have to run the page through the printer twice, once for each side, but that's a small effort. Aligning the reverse side is easy enough: make a copy of the front layer in your graphics software then flip it. Use that to position the designation text, then hide the reversed layer. I don't copy the existing designation because it's too hard to get the alignment right with the cut-out overlays, but if I hadn't cut them out many years ago it probably wouldn't be too hard to copy the reverse side so you get the official designations. I don't think it would be worth the extra effort myself.

Personally I like the edges to include a clear border. That means cutting out the paper before laminating, then cutting out the lamination with a border. That's a lot of cutting. If you don't want a clear border you could laminate the whole printed sheet. The paper would come to the edge, making them more vulnerable to water damage (perhaps slightly; I don't know how water-proof they are with a clear border), but you don't have to cut the overlays out twice.

JR

I'm wondering if the edges would fray it it is laminated to the edge. When I did my mounted boards I used clear contact paper and cut and folded the edges over to the back so the edges were covered.

 

[jrv]

I'm actually curious about this to possibly laminate my "Up Front!" cards. What machines have you used and/or would recommend? For something like the Up Front cards, would you pre-cut the sheets for the size of the cards or try to laminate a bunch of cards at once and then cut out the individual cards?

I currently have a Scotch TL1306. I did some research at the time, and it seemed a good option.

For cards I think you can buy pouches that are card-sized. The pouches are two sheets that are joined at one edge. I think if you cut a full page pouch and tried to use two loose pieces the top and bottom would not align and you would get glue on the rollers, which would be bad. I can't say which would be better, laminating multiple cards in a page or using smaller pouches. I use page pouches for overlays, even small ones, and cut them apart. Overlays have so many different sizes that there is no single pouch size that would be suitable.

Also for your cards I would suggest scanning, printing and laminating copies rather than the originals. It's more work and the graphics are not quite as good, but once you laminate the originals there's no out in case of failure.

JR

 

[jrv]

I'm wondering if the edges would fray it it is laminated to the edge. When I did my mounted boards I used clear contact paper and cut and folded the edges over to the back so the edges were covered.

Still not understanding. If you laminate without trimming the paper first then cut out the item, on the cut edge you get a layer of plastic, a layer of glue, paper/cardboard, glue, plastic. The paper might split, and thicker paper/cardboard is probably more liable to split, but the plastic isn't going to do anything unless you do something terrible to it, in which case nothing good is going to happen no matter how you prepare your lamination. I am not sure what you mean by fraying, unless you are thinking of having the paper stick out from the plastic.

JR

 

[Gordon]

All great points, thanks!

 

[von Marwitz]

I'm actually curious about this to possibly laminate my "Up Front!" cards. What machines have you used and/or would recommend? For something like the Up Front cards, would you pre-cut the sheets for the size of the cards or try to laminate a bunch of cards at once and then cut out the individual cards?

TIA

Aren't there ready-made protective sleeves for trading cards such as Magic? Using these would allow you to retrieve the "Up Front!" cards "undamaged" as well as an added bonus.

von Marwitz

 

[Philippe D.]

Yes, if you're talking about standard "trading card" sized cards, it's easy to buy protective sleeves that will do the job.

 

[bprobst]

Technically I think the (deck) cards for the TAHGC edition of UF! are "playing card" sized, not "trading card" sized. Protective sleeves are available in many sizes, though. Just a matter of comparing measurements. The sleeve manufacturers generally make this really easy to determine.

If you want to sleeve the cards for men and vehicles as well then they were different sizes again.

Note that for UF! the base deck is already quite large; sleeves add to the size of the deck considerably (even very thin sleeves) and may make shuffling ... challenging. (They can be very slippery; just keeping the deck standing upright can be quite a task!) Actual lamination would, I think, be even worse (at least in terms of thickness). Not a reason to not do it, but you definitely need to keep it in mind.

 

[Bob Walters]

Still not understanding. If you laminate without trimming the paper first then cut out the item, on the cut edge you get a layer of plastic, a layer of glue, paper/cardboard, glue, plastic. The paper might split, and thicker paper/cardboard is probably more liable to split, but the plastic isn't going to do anything unless you do something terrible to it, in which case nothing good is going to happen no matter how you prepare your lamination. I am not sure what you mean by fraying, unless you are thinking of having the paper stick out from the plastic.

JR

I thought the plastic might start to tear off the surface of the paper or peel bac,k from the edge. Heck. I don't know I just like to be thorough.

 

[jrv]

I thought the plastic might start to tear off the surface of the paper or peel bac,k from the edge. Heck. I don't know I just like to be thorough.

I don't know if it would. For overlays I don't stress the lamination that much, and I can't see it happening unless you fidget with them or something. Personally I have the overlays stored in a binder, and I only pull them out for the scenario, so there's very little stress. For cards if you shuffle them the traditional way you might be able to put enough stress to cause them to separate.

That said, the plastic used with heat lamination is thick enough that it is somewhat stiff. You may be thinking of plastic that rolls back from the edges. I do have some of that with the LFT Rat Chart cover page, for example. But the plastic there is thinner, more near plastic wrap, and the paper thicker. I have never seen that with anything I have laminated, but again I laminate over the edge, so I don't have paper exposed on the edge. This will also depend on the thickness of the lamination pocket. My laminator will accept three mil to six mil thickness lamination pouches. An ordinary piece of paper is roughly three mil thick. Three mil lamination is fairly stiff, and six mil is nearly rigid, partly because the listed thickness is per side, i.e. with a three mil pouch you end up with a nine mil output, three for the paper and six for the two layers of plastic. I use three mil, again because overlays are not stressed very much. I don't know for sure, but I think the plastic on something like the LFT Rat Charts is less than one mil thick, more a coating, and the paper is more like cardboard to give it thickness. And my Rat Charts are used more and more roughly too.

If you are protecting something like cards and you shuffle/flex them, I think you are right after some time they may become worn. That's a good reason to scan and print copies.

JR

 

[Bob Walters]

I don't know if it would. For overlays I don't stress the lamination that much, and I can't see it happening unless you fidget with them or something. Personally I have the overlays stored in a binder, and I only pull them out for the scenario, so there's very little stress. For cards if you shuffle them the traditional way you might be able to put enough stress to cause them to separate.

That said, the plastic used with heat lamination is thick enough that it is somewhat stiff. You may be thinking of plastic that rolls back from the edges. I do have some of that with the LFT Rat Chart cover page, for example. But the plastic there is thinner, more near plastic wrap, and the paper thicker. I have never seen that with anything I have laminated, but again I laminate over the edge, so I don't have paper exposed on the edge. This will also depend on the thickness of the lamination pocket. My laminator will accept three mil to six mil thickness lamination pouches. An ordinary piece of paper is roughly three mil thick. Three mil lamination is fairly stiff, and six mil is nearly rigid, partly because the listed thickness is per side, i.e. with a three mil pouch you end up with a nine mil output, three for the paper and six for the two layers of plastic. I use three mil, again because overlays are not stressed very much. I don't know for sure, but I think the plastic on something like the LFT Rat Charts is less than one mil thick, more a coating, and the paper is more like cardboard to give it thickness. And my Rat Charts are used more and more roughly too.

If you are protecting something like cards and you shuffle/flex them, I think you are right after some time they may become worn. That's a good reason to scan and print copies.

JR

Thank you! That is a big help!

 

[Gordon]

Yes, I am concerned about the effect on play of any sort of card sleeves that overly increase the size/thickness of the cards. Even with my original set of UF! cards we never shuffled them the traditional way in order to reduce wear and tear.

 

[fenyan]

I don't know that heat laminators are better or worse than cold laminators. The nice thing about a heat laminator is that it won't adhere until you heat it, and that gives you time to reposition things. I don't know but I suspect that with cold laminators once something touches the glue, that's where it's going to stay.

I also don't laminate the original overlays. I scan them, print copies and laminate the copies. It's a lot more work but if I lose one I can replace it.

JR

I have a cold laminator, wish I'd gotten a heat laminator. Too many wrinkles & air pockets.

 

[Yuri0352]

I've been using card sleeves on my Ritterkrieg OBA cards for several years now. Despite 'shuffling', they have held up remarkably well. You just cannot shuffle them or bend them as aggressively as a dealer at a poker game. The sleeves do increase the thickness of the cards, however I have only sleeved the most commonly used OBA calibers (80, 100, mortar, etc.) and I am still able to store them in their original box.

 

[Brad M-V]

I suggest you just use and abuse them so you're justify in getting the next reprint version. Heck, the game might even be all digital by then, too.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Yes, I am concerned about the effect on play of any sort of card sleeves that overly increase the size/thickness of the cards. Even with my original set of UF! cards we never shuffled them the traditional way in order to reduce wear and tear.

Shuffling sleeved cards, if more cumbersome, avoids the risk of bending them.
I sleeved my UF cards with good, sturdy sleeves and they are doing fine.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Shuffling sleeved cards, if more cumbersome, avoids the risk of bending them.
I sleeved my UF cards with good, sturdy sleeves and they are doing fine.

I miss the green elf dude avatar.