Two Russian MMCs (4-4-7s no special SSRs for AT capabilities), one concealed and one not concealed both pass PAATCs from separate hexes and enter the hex of an in motion BU German PzIVH (3/5 MGs). Please help guide me through the proper sequence of play (i.e., Ambush, attacks by the MMCs, attacks back by the AFV). Does Ambush only occur if the AFV is in a woods/building hex (or using bypass) or if being attack via Street Fighting? Thanks in advance.
CC vs in motion AFV
- Thread starter clubby
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klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
If the concealed unit keeps concealment when it advances in, then Ambush is possible regardless of terrain.
jrv
Forum Guru
Some ways to keep concealment when advancing into CC with a Motion vehicle: advance into Orchard, advance into Grain, advance into Open Ground with Winter Camouflage, advance into woods/road, advance occurs at night, etc.
Ambush is determined first if applicable. Ambush after an Advance occurs if the CC is in woods/building and/or if one of the units involved is concealed. Ambush can apply to "true" (i.e. not bypass) street fighting but in most cases units advancing into a street will lose concealment because it is Open Ground. Not always but certainly often.
CC with vehicles is sequential (i.e. not simultaneous). There are three "styles" of sequential CC with different mechanics; in this case the sides alternate declaring and making one attack. The side without the vehicle goes first in the alternation.
JR
Ambush is determined first if applicable. Ambush after an Advance occurs if the CC is in woods/building and/or if one of the units involved is concealed. Ambush can apply to "true" (i.e. not bypass) street fighting but in most cases units advancing into a street will lose concealment because it is Open Ground. Not always but certainly often.
CC with vehicles is sequential (i.e. not simultaneous). There are three "styles" of sequential CC with different mechanics; in this case the sides alternate declaring and making one attack. The side without the vehicle goes first in the alternation.
JR
Last edited:
Ed Caswell
Member
If the AFV is in Good Order and in Open Ground, the advancing unit would lose concealment.
jrv
Forum Guru
This isn't true if the unit advancing has Winter Camouflage or it is night.
If an AFV is in Motion then it is in Good Order.
KR
Is the sequence, first MMC, tank attacks just them back, second MMC, tank attacks them back? So, the first MMC, no ambush, is a CCV of 5. The tank is in motion +2. So 3 to do anything? The AFV attacks back at 1:2 (5fp CMG, 1/2 for motion)? If the MMC that started concealed had advanced in keeping concealment and gotten ambush, they'd be attacking as CCV 5 -1 ambush +2 motion? And the AFV would have attacked back 1:2 +1 ambush? Thanks.
jrv
Forum Guru
If you are interested in just this case and assume that everything that is relevant has been mentioned, much of what you say is correct. The tank only gets one attack, however, as it only has one CC weapon, its CMG. If it had a Nahverteidigungswaffe it could attack twice.
If there had been a successful ambush there would be two reasons for non-simultaneous CC, vehicle and ambush. Per A11.34 the ambush CC resolution mechanic (with all attacks of the ambushing side made first) would be used.
JR
So in this specific case, even if multiple MMCs made attacks, the PZIVH would only attack one of them back because it only has the one CMG? Can it choose which squad to attack back, so for example for a higher value attacker attacking later? Thanks.
In the same vein, if the vehicle was CE and had a functional AAMG, can it combine or split those attacks? Say it has a 4fp CMG and a 4fp AAMG. Can it attack 1:2 vs one MMC and then attack 1:2 vs another? Can it combine them and attack 3:2 versus either? Thanks.
jrv
Forum Guru
It may attack any non-vehicular enemy unit or combination (EXC: SMC defending with other unit may not be attacked separately) in the CC location.
JR
OK, last question. Maybe. It says any non-vehicular enemy unit or combination. Can it attack a unit that hasn't attacked it in combination with a unit that has? Can it wait for the first and second unit to attack it and then attack both units back in combination?
jrv
Forum Guru
A vehicle may combine its different weapons (EXC: Nahverteidigungswaffe) or use them separately in different attacks.
JR
jrv
Forum Guru
Whether the units on the other side have declared attacks or not or, declared but not yet made them or not, does not affect whether they can be attacked. Frequently a vehicle will attack the unit(s) that have not yet attacked in non-simultaneous CC.
I believe that a unit loses concealment only on declaring an attack, and in the case of non-simultaneous CC with a vehicle, the declaration is made in each alternation. If there are two infantry MMC in CC with one vehicle and one of the MMC is concealed, it might be sensible to attack with the unconcealed unit first. The vehicle would now have the choice of attacking the concealed unit that has not yet attacked or the unconcealed unit that has already attacked.
JR
Paul John
Senior Member
Yes. It is not in good order when STUNNED, but once the marker is flipped and the vehicle is moving again, it is back to GO. See the index for the definition:
BTW, it would be nice if the Quote tag were part of the menu again, mods.ASLRBv2 Index said:
Cool, I thought the insert was to insert a file. Has another favorite of mine, strike-through. Thanks!