CC refresher - do we need it ? ( ohh yes )

[Oberst Balck]

Situations…

FIRING IN TPB SITUATIONS AND CC

A bezerk unit charges to a enemy unit with the fewest MP possible the enemy (a 467) fires with DFF ( 8 – 2 we’ll say). The bezerk unit then ENTERS the hex. The 467 fires with DF ( 4 * 3/ 2 = 6 FP + TEM). Now presume both units are ok.

1) In the AFPh can the bezerk unit fire at 3/2* FP ?

In situation 2

The defender does not attack and remains concealed. The bezerk units attacks in the CC with ½ FP value. The 467 is unscathed.

1) In the Prep Fire Phase can the 467 attack a TPBF ? If yes can the bezerk unit fire at TPBF in the DFPh ?

In either of the above cases when are units UNABLE to use either of the above methods?



Thanks

 

[Robin Reeve]

I'd say "yes" to all.
In second case, as Melee does not yet exist after 467 fired, Berserk can fire before CCPh.
In second case, Berserk could not TPB fire in DFPh if eliminated by 467 (e.g. rolling boxcars when testing morale, or by other means)...
But I believe you would like to have other answers about units not able to use the methods you propose...

 

[Anonymous]

Situation 1: Yes, the berserk unit can fire during the AFPh.

Situation 2: The berserk unit must Charge a Known enemy unit; if there were no Known enemy units at the time of suffering the berserk result, it would have Battle Hardened instead.

If, on the way to Charging a Known enemy unit, it entered a "?" unit's Location, it couldn't stop, it would have to keep Charging toward a Known enemy unit. And since the berserk unit must use Bypass if possible, I think it is highly unlikely that it would end the MPh in a Location containing a "?" enemy unit.

Having said that, in the unlikely event that it does happen as you describe, then the 4-6-7 could fire in the PFPh, and the berserker could fire back in the DFPh, since a Melee has not yet occurred.

As regards your final question, I believe that what you propose is valid, so I cannot think offhand of a case where they would be unable to fire as you suggest.

Regards,
Bruce

 

[Treadhead]

(Sorry folks, that "Guest" reply was mine... I thought I was logged in, but evidently not. Am still getting used to this interface.)

Bruce Bakken

 

[Brian W]

A bezerk unit charges to a enemy unit with the fewest MP possible the enemy (a 467) fires with DFF ( 8 – 2 we’ll say). The bezerk unit then ENTERS the hex. The 467 fires with DF ( 4 * 3/ 2 = 6 FP + TEM). Now presume both units are ok.

1) In the AFPh can the bezerk unit fire at 3/2* FP ?

Yes

The defender does not attack and remains concealed. The bezerk units attacks in the CC with ½ FP value. The 467 is unscathed.

First, the defender must lose concealment per Case A of the Concealment Loss/Gain Chart unless the beserk unit were bypassing the hex. Also, any armed and unbroken Infantry unit must fire at an enemy infantry/cavalry unit that enters its location during the MPh [exc: bypass] per A8.312.

1) In the Prep Fire Phase can the 467 attack a TPBF ? If yes can the bezerk unit fire at TPBF in the DFPh ?

Although this situation could not happen, it is possible to start a PFPh with units in the same location, some in Melee and some in CC; in that case the answer is yes.

If yes can the bezerk unit fire at TPBF in the DFPh ?

No (i.e. the berserk unit would still be held in melee).

 

[Oberst Balck]

thanks . more comments welcome

Thanks for all your comments and clarrifications..

I will need to relook at the bezerk rules as I see my ? situaution would not occur with them ( ie: ? are not a target).

Any other brainwaves out there keep 'em coming.. :arrow:


Thanks again

 

[Treadhead]

(Not sure how to use quotes... but Brian W. said

First, the defender must lose concealment per Case A of the Concealment Loss/Gain Chart unless the beserk unit were bypassing the hex. Also, any armed and unbroken Infantry unit must fire at an enemy infantry/cavalry unit that enters its location during the MPh [exc: bypass] per A8.312.

Anyway, good catch. I was incorrect regarding the berserk unit entering the "?" unit's Location. If the berserk unit enters the Location, then the "?" unit must use TPBF per A8.312 as you point out.

However, even if an enemy unit enters a "?" unit's Location via Bypass, the "?" unit must still fire at it per A8.312. I.e., there is no exception for bypass in this instance. (Which still makes me wrong.)

Regards,
Bruce B.

 

[Oberst Balck]

bezerk and CC

It should be noted ( A15.431)

" If it moves into a ? enemies hex while charging another unit it must remain in that hex and attampt to elinminate all enemy therin instead."

I presume or infer that this would happen when when rubble or other unbypassable terrain ( adjoining woods) make this occur. I am not sure if the bezerk unit can elect to go to the hex that is NOT occupied by a ? enemy ( two parallel adjacent hexes), say when having initially viewed a unit in a level 2 building..

Anyway, the bezerk thing with a ? enemy CAN happen, just a bit of an unusual event.