CC and snake eyes.

Steed

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Just want to make sure we did this right as neither of us has any extensive experience with close combat.

Two Russian leaders (8-1, 8-0) are in a stone building. Three German squads ( 2 full squads and 1 half squad ) and leader ( 8-0 ) advance into the building during the advance phase. Nobody gets ambush.

The Russian's decide to defend together and attack the half squad. The German decides to attack with all the squads and leader.

The German rolls below his number and kills the leaders. The Russian rolls snake eyes. That eliminates the German half squad but it also suspends the simultaneous CC and allows them retreat out of the hex.

That's the way we played it. Is that correct?
 

jrv

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Just want to make sure we did this right as neither of us has any extensive experience with close combat.

Two Russian leaders (8-1, 8-0) are in a stone building. Three German squads ( 2 full squads and 1 half squad ) and leader ( 8-0 ) advance into the building during the advance phase. Nobody gets ambush.

The Russian's decide to defend together and attack the half squad. The German decides to attack with all the squads and leader.

The German rolls below his number and kills the leaders. The Russian rolls snake eyes. That eliminates the German half squad but it also suspends the simultaneous CC and allows them retreat out of the hex.

That's the way we played it. Is that correct?
No. They rolled snakeeyes after they had been eliminated. CC simulates simultaneous combat, but it has a definite order to the mechanics. If there were a MMC involved the side rolling snakeeyes would roll for leader creation, then refigure the result against it, and if anything survived that could withdraw. Because there were only Soviet leaders there is no leader creation and the result against them (elimination) stands.

JR
 

Steed

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No. They rolled snakeeyes after they had been eliminated. CC simulates simultaneous combat, but it has a definite order to the mechanics. If there were a MMC involved the side rolling snakeeyes would roll for leader creation, then refigure the result against it, and if anything survived that could withdraw. Because there were only Soviet leaders there is no leader creation and the result against them (elimination) stands.

JR
Thank you for clarifying that. I may bother you with a follow up question later but I don't have the rule book at hand.
 

EagleIV

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Had your leaders jumped the Germans (on your turn), then you rolled 'eyes first you could immediately withdraw before the Germans rolled their attack and they could only attack anyone left in the location (i.e. probably nobody).
 

Eagle4ty

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Had your leaders jumped the Germans (on your turn), then you rolled 'eyes first you could immediately withdraw before the Germans rolled their attack and they could only attack anyone left in the location (i.e. probably nobody).
Beat me to it, sir!:)
 

Steed

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Thanks for the answers guys. I believe I know where we went wrong. I have just printed out the CC flow chart from The Ponderous Book Of ASL Play Aids which is where I should have looked but forgot all about.
 
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I want to get a few details pinned down.

1) No ambush ,,, does this mean there can be no withdrawal either way ( 1,1 / 6,6)

2) Depending on the above, but still with no ambush then each side gets the result they rolled.

In 2 there will always be 2 DR yours/ theirs.
 

jrv

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I want to get a few details pinned down.

1) No ambush ,,, does this mean there can be no withdrawal either way ( 1,1 / 6,6)

2) Depending on the above, but still with no ambush then each side gets the result they rolled.

In 2 there will always be 2 DR yours/ theirs.
Not sure what the question is here. A snakeeyes/boxcars on attack in CC always allows infiltration (potentially, within the other limits of the rules, e.g. a pinned unit or a vehicle may not withdraw) in simultaneous CC.

JR
 

Michael R

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I want to get a few details pinned down.

1) No ambush ,,, does this mean there can be no withdrawal either way ( 1,1 / 6,6)

2) Depending on the above, but still with no ambush then each side gets the result they rolled.

In 2 there will always be 2 DR yours/ theirs.
Re #1: 2 or 12 always allows the withdrawal of unpinned infantry units.

Re#2: If the Attacker rolls a 2, the units can withdraw without being attacked by the Defender, even if they are not eliminated.
 

Vinnie

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Had an instance where I rolled snakes and failed to kill anything but was able yo withdraw. My pinned leader got jumped by a squad and a leader who shifted their attack! My 2 failed to do anything (odds of 1 to 10!) But my leader did get to withdraw.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Had an instance where I rolled snakes and failed to kill anything but was able yo withdraw. My pinned leader got jumped by a squad and a leader who shifted their attack! My 2 failed to do anything (odds of 1 to 10!) But my leader did get to withdraw.
I thought pinned units could not Withdraw...
 
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No. They rolled snakeeyes after they had been eliminated. CC simulates simultaneous combat, but it has a definite order to the mechanics. If there were a MMC involved the side rolling snakeeyes would roll for leader creation, then refigure the result against it, and if anything survived that could withdraw. Because there were only Soviet leaders there is no leader creation and the result against them (elimination) stands.

My question may be confused as I was confused by this.

I think if Steed had posted an actual example it would be clearer... In the super unlikely event that 2 leaders are in the same hex, then
in this super unlikely example"

If no ambush .. thus German is the attacker..

He KIA's the Russian ( 2 leaders), in CC.

there is no "other part" to this ... that is what is confusing !!

If the R had rolled ambush they would have a 2 FP Vs whatever -1 right?
 

Steed

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No. They rolled snakeeyes after they had been eliminated. CC simulates simultaneous combat, but it has a definite order to the mechanics. If there were a MMC involved the side rolling snakeeyes would roll for leader creation, then refigure the result against it, and if anything survived that could withdraw. Because there were only Soviet leaders there is no leader creation and the result against them (elimination) stands.

My question may be confused as I was confused by this.

I think if Steed had posted an actual example it would be clearer... In the super unlikely event that 2 leaders are in the same hex, then
in this super unlikely example"

If no ambush .. thus German is the attacker..

He KIA's the Russian ( 2 leaders), in CC.

there is no "other part" to this ... that is what is confusing !!

If the R had rolled ambush they would have a 2 FP Vs whatever -1 right?
I did not think an example was needed as it was real situation in a real game. As for it being unlikely to have 2 leaders in the same hex, well they were there. They were with 3 full 1st line inf squads but then the adjacent german squads broke them. During the next rout phase since they were adjacent to a KEU and had no way to rout without resorting to low crawl they surrendered. That left the leaders all alone in the building. Since they could no longer advance into the CC that was planned due to the missing infantry units and advancing out of the building would be an open ground hex, they stayed in the building. During the following german turn the player waited until the advance phase, moved in a leader, 2 squads and a half squad. That's how 2 leaders ended up alone in a hex and went into CC with a bunch of germans. My only regret was not taking on the whole stack.
 
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