CC and broken units - how to

[Oberst Hausser]

OH bother....

I have always thought that CC vs enemy units whether ?, DM (broken) or GO happen all at once.

Similar to fire at a hex with ? and non ? units and let the mods apply as they will.

Thus say 8FP at the non ? and 4 at the ? one. That is all at once.

HOWEVER.

I have been told that in CC this is not the case.

If there are broken units in a hex I can only attack the GO ones or the broken ones (withdrawing)

This also begs the question if there is this same separation with ? units and non ? units.

THUS

8-1
dm 467, 467
? 467

In a melee situation HOW can attacks occur? OR

In particular are there any cases where one CC DR is not enough to decide the full outcome.

My pooor head......



Thank you

 

[EagleIV]

You can attack both broken units and unbroken units with the same attack (with different DRM). You can also attack withdrawing units and non-withdrawing units with the same attack (again with different DRM).

In your case you can make one attack against everyone with different DRM, but since you attack includes a concealed target your FP would be halved.

 

[Eagle4ty]

...

In particular are there any cases where one CC DR is not enough to decide the full outcome.

...

Yes, if you are in CC with an AFV & infantry. You must select which type of target you wish to engage if only having a single unit in CC.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

You can attack both broken units and unbroken units with the same attack (with different DRM). You can also attack withdrawing units and non-withdrawing units with the same attack (again with different DRM).

In your case you can make one attack against everyone with different DRM, but since you attack includes a concealed target your FP would be halved.

but since you attack includes a concealed target your FP would be halved.

This would be only at the ? unit I guess.

So, it is "all at once". This idea that it was either CC the broken units OR GO units then is wrong.

The world balances once again.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

but since you attack includes a concealed target your FP would be halved.

This would be only at the ? unit I guess.

If you choose to attack both concealed and non-concealed enemy units in the same CC attack then your FP is halved.

A11.19:
"The FP of an attacking unit is always halved when attacking a concealed Unit in CC. For that reason, it is rarely wise to attack both concealed and unconcealed units in the same CC attack. ..."

 

[Oberst Hausser]

I am wondering in a true example of the "zombie apocalypse" if the following is possible.

German 467
Russian 447 x2 both are DM

They are in Mellee

The 467 attacks the 2 DM 447 at 1:2 - 4

If the roll is passed by the Russian units does the CC contunue? ( thereafter)

Can there ever be any separation in the German's CC attack?

Example: 1:1 against 1 DM 447 and not the other? If he attacks just 1 DM 447 what happens about the other?

In following this through to logical " destruction" it seems to me possible that broken units can maintain a CC forever. OR

If withdrawal is mandatory why does the German attack at all if he can choose not to attack, that is the DM Russians are eliminated by default.

I hope everyone's thinking caps are on as I'm interested in the final outcome.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

In this example both the broken Russian 4-4-7 squads need to Withdraw. The German can either attack none, one, or both of them. Those that survive a German attack (if any) sucessfully [EXC: if they withdraw into a Location where there are hidden/concealed enemies they are eliminated] withdraw and are no longer in Melee.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

In this example both the broken Russian 4-4-7 squads need to Withdraw. The German can either attack none, one, or both of them. Those that survive a German attack (if any) sucessfully [EXC: if they withdraw into a Location where there are hidden/concealed enemies they are eliminated] withdraw and are no longer in Melee.


Praise the Lord. That is what I was looking for (one way or the other).

Many thanks. What a headache that was !

 

[Oberst Hausser]

If you choose to attack both concealed and non-concealed enemy units in the same CC attack then your FP is halved.

A11.19:
"The FP of an attacking unit is always halved when attacking a concealed Unit in CC. For that reason, it is rarely wise to attack both concealed and unconcealed units in the same CC attack. ..."

Oh that is quite subtle. It leaves open the not often used ? unit TPBF situation.

Since I brought it up (did you have to) might as well run through it. The main issue being whether you are the one with the ? unit.

This is firstly not always the one that defends where it seems most prudent to do so.

Example:

GT3 CC

3 x 467 have CC the Russian 3x 447 ( oh not again) the 3rd R MMC being ?.

So, the German does not attack the ? MMC so the odds are 1:1 ( say), and to make things easy 1 467 and a ? Russian 447 are left.


Thus

RT3 PFPh This would be 12 FP + TEM in the previous CC location.


If the opponent survives ( or both) the TPBF could either party add ? friendly units to the CC??

 

[klasmalmstrom]

RT3 PFPh This would be 12 FP + TEM in the previous CC location.

If the opponent survives ( or both) the TPBF could either party add ? friendly units to the CC??

Of course you can add more units, concealed or not, into a Melee. Note that the Concealed Russian 4-4-7 after having made its 12-FP attack in the PFPh, would be locked in the Melee as well, per A11.15.