Case J/L .... Motion .... Stopped

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
Well I felt compelled to make my own cheat sheet about Case J/L TH modifiers. It all makes sense now but I had to parse the manual and several articles. If anybody sees an error here I would love to hear it. Thanks.

And my question about the ORANGE box below is..................
A Vehicle begins InMotion. It moves, Stops one hex further, and ends with no Motion Counter. This is considered a MovingTarget in the DFPh. HOW do you keep track of these stopped vehicles which are still MovingTarget? In high density scenarios this might get a little confusing.

11439


 

Attachments

Last edited:

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
I am trying to understand your grid. I am unclear how to use it or what various things are supposed to mean. The first question I have is with the first item in the first column, "Begins with Motion Counter". Begins what? The game? The game turn? The player turn? Some phase? Its MPh? I will guess it is probably "its MPh" because the second column is titled "the moving vehicle" but I am not sure.

Ah, I think I begin to see a little of what you are trying to do. The first half of the chart applies only during its MPh for a moving vehicle. The "begins with Motion Counter" is a decision in a flow chart. If you answer "yes", you proceed down column two. If you answer "no", you proceed down column three. The values in columns two and three in the lines below that "begins with Motion" give characteristics that might or might not be true in different cases, and you can read off the value of the characteristic in those lines in the column (two or three) that your "decision tree decision" had you follow. Thus the "yes" and "no" values in the second and third column mean different things on different lines. The heading on column two, "The moving vehicle," is supposed to be a heading for columns two and three, but only for the line, "begins [its MPh] with Motion Counter". For the other lines the header should be something like "has characteristic."

You are trying to combine a flowchart and a grid of characteristics into one thing, and I find it quite confusing to follow. Continuing on the second half of the chart has a fourth column, which is unlabeled, and I am unclear how it fits in as either a decision tree element or a "has characteristic" element. Perhaps in the second half of the chart the two lines "has Motion counter" and "moved previously this turn" are decision tree elements, and the lines after that are "has characteristic" lines.

As far as I understand what you have put together I don't see anything technically wrong, but I find it extremely hard to figure out how to use it. I should be able to begin a situation and a question (e.g., it is the PFPh and I am firing at an adjacent target that has a Motion counter on it: is it a case J moving target and does case L point blank range apply? Or e.g., it is this vehicle's MPh and it began its MPh not in Motion but expended four MP to unload, one MP to start one MP to throw a smoke grenade, and one MP to change CA: is it a case J moving target and does case L point blank range apply?). I should be able to find a clear starting point in the chart, put my finger on it, and by answering simple questions, move my finger through the chart to a set of answers. I don't think I can do that with your chart. It seems that you are trying to combine a flowchart with a list of characteristics in the same grid. I would suggest breaking the two different aspects into different chart elements rather than having both be lines in the same grid.

JR
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
11,335
Reaction score
5,071
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
If a vehicle begins its MPh in Motion, it is a Moving Target. If it Stops, it is still a Moving Target but now subject to Point Blank To Hit Modifiers. A vehicle which begins its MPh Stopped is not a Moving Target until it enters a new Hex or Hex-side. Once it spends a Start Point, it is now Non-Stopped and no longer subject to Point Blank modifiers. If it spends a Stop point after moving to a new Hex/Hex-side, it would still be a Moving Target but would again be subject to Point Blank Modifiers. -- jim
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
Thanks Jim. Yes, that is what my chart says.
JR, thanks for comments. Yes, you are right it could be a classic ASL decision tree. The nice spreadsheet format gets destroyed when pasting into here. Classification of Vehicles as a Target is the whole point. I'm updating with an image of the spreadsheet instead to make it clearer.
 

Michael R

Minor Hero
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
4,622
Reaction score
4,162
Location
La Belle Province
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
HOW do you keep track of these stopped vehicles which are still MovingTarget? In high density scenarios this might get a little confusing.
There has been only one time where I found it necessary to mark such vehicles. It was when I was playing a campaign game with long turns and sometimes we would need to end the session with the movement phase still in progress. Otherwise, we have always been able to remember. I recommend transparent bingo markers (small plastic discs) if you wish to make things easier on the brain.
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
yeah, i figured as much. Not much problem remembering. Just started playing Red Factories Campaign but Vehicle density is still way low.
 
Top