Carriers and Towing...

Martin Mayers

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So I have an order of battle which includes a 6pdr, a 228 gun crew, and a carrier which has a tow capacity...

They all enter from off board.

There is no absolute mandate that the carriers MUST tow the gun.

If the carrier enters WITHOUT towing the gun, it has a 247/248 half squad on board.

If the carrier enters towing the gun, then that 247/248 is instead a vehicle inherant crew. With the gun in tow. And with the 228 gun crew being carried as Riders.

Is that all correct?

What happens to that carrier if it entered without towing but DURING THE GAME it hooks up the gun to tow? Does its 247/248 half squad at that point immediately morph into a vehicle inherent crew ?????

Thanks in advance
 

Gamer72

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Are you planning to push the Gun onboard ? Is this some nefarious plan to gain an extra half-squad ? Naughty, naughty...
 

Michael R

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By the way, British MAVN U states no towing for some carriers until 1944.
 

WuWei

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If the carrier enters towing the gun, then that 247/248 is instead a vehicle inherant crew. With the gun in tow. And with the 228 gun crew being carried as Riders.
Oh, that's something new to me. Why would that be that case?
 

klasmalmstrom

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If the carrier enters towing the gun, then that 247/248 is instead a vehicle inherant crew. With the gun in tow. And with the 228 gun crew being carried as Riders.
I think the intention might actually be that the 2-2-8 is the Inherent crew of the Carrier - not a vehicle crew. But granted, it's not 100% clear.

6.82 CREWS/HS: Carrier crews usually dismounted to make an attack as normal Infantry; therefore, their inherent crews are really 2-4-7 HS (or 2-4-8 if representing an elite unit) that, due to their unique training, need not pass a TC nor have a leader present (A1.31-.32) to recombine after Dismounting, or to Deploy for the purpose of mounting their Carriers (after having been combined into squads) when dismounted [EXC: those Carriers armed with a FT or 76mm mortar or specified as towing ordnance, have inherent crews].

The Carrier with the 76mm MTR has it specifially spelled out in the Vehicle Note that it has a 2-2-8 as an Inherent crew.
 

Martin Mayers

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I think the intention might actually be that the 2-2-8 is the Inherent crew of the Carrier - not a vehicle crew. But granted, it's not 100% clear.

6.82 CREWS/HS: Carrier crews usually dismounted to make an attack as normal Infantry; therefore, their inherent crews are really 2-4-7 HS (or 2-4-8 if representing an elite unit) that, due to their unique training, need not pass a TC nor have a leader present (A1.31-.32) to recombine after Dismounting, or to Deploy for the purpose of mounting their Carriers (after having been combined into squads) when dismounted [EXC: those Carriers armed with a FT or 76mm mortar or specified as towing ordnance, have inherent crews].

The Carrier with the 76mm MTR has it specifially spelled out in the Vehicle Note that it has a 2-2-8 as an Inherent crew.
interesting observations Klas. I think the intent of the wording is indeed that the 228 granted in the OOB is THE inherent crew. I think it would say "inherent vehicular crew" if it was indeed a 127 IVC.
 

Martin Mayers

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Are you planning to push the Gun onboard ? Is this some nefarious plan to gain an extra half-squad ? Naughty, naughty...
Not guilty on this occasion but that's the suggestion by one particular player and we're not sure if it's the intent of the designers or something that needs clarification within the SSRs.
 

von Marwitz

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If the carrier enters towing the gun, then that 247/248 is instead a vehicle inherant crew. With the gun in tow. And with the 228 gun crew being carried as Riders.
Interesting question! Does one also have to consider that some Portage capacity of the Carrier might be taken up by ammo for the Gun?

von Marwitz
 

EagleIV

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Are you planning to push the Gun onboard ? Is this some nefarious plan to gain an extra half-squad ? Naughty, naughty...
You are also risking the Gun/crew and giving your opponent an easy 4CVP when you fail the manhandling DR.
 

Vinnie

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I suspect that if you want the carriers to tow the guns then you give the guns and the carriers in the OB but no crews. That way, to get crews, they have to come on towing the guns, or specify in SSR but that cheating!
 

Martin Mayers

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Interesting question! Does one also have to consider that some Portage capacity of the Carrier might be taken up by ammo for the Gun?

von Marwitz
Correct. Rule specifically addresses this...stating that 4PP is reduced to 0PP due to carrying the ammo
 

Martin Mayers

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You are also risking the Gun/crew and giving your opponent an easy 4CVP when you fail the manhandling DR.
In fairness it's usually pretty easy to avoid this risk (use extra MMC to assist and/or enter on road). But still, they're assets then not being used for that which they are supposed used for.
 

JoeArthur

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Those carriers were a right pain. It would be nice if the crew had to exit them to man the AT guns :)
 

Eagle4ty

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Those carriers were a right pain. It would be nice if the crew had to exit them to man the AT guns :)
Yup, you have to pay an extra MF to enter/exit a foxhole, recover a SW/Gun, etc. but can skinny out of the top of a carrier and unhook a gun in one swift motion. Ah, it is what it is.
 

Martin Mayers

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Yup, you have to pay an extra MF to enter/exit a foxhole, recover a SW/Gun, etc. but can skinny out of the top of a carrier and unhook a gun in one swift motion. Ah, it is what it is.
But if there's stuff that can shoot at you they can shoot at you whilst you're skinnying out and unhooking the gun just as if you were exiting a foxhole. Plus you cannot assault move in the process of unhooking
 
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