Card-driven ASL

BattleSchool

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Really? The main reason I don't play solo is because of the endless arguments. ;)
I can't say that I share your sentiment.

With the exception of Dogs of War--where me, myself, and I frequently resorted to Random Selection (in order to determine which rules lawyer had the SOP right)--I rarely encounter an argument that can't be resolved by playing an MTG card.
 

Justiciar

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I am surprised how excited people are, but don't worry, it's just a matter of a couple of weeks. Are you coming to ASLOK? This year the pre-reg list is not available so i have no clue about who's coming.
Yes, I am signed up. So if all goes well, yes I well be there. How does that help your cause, and my simple one card sample request?
 

Mister T

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Yes, I am signed up. So if all goes well, yes I well be there. How does that help your cause, and my simple one card sample request?
You fret about Korea and the people like me could say about your design choices. But let me say, again, that i welcome the Korean module and found it a very worthwhile addition to the system. And i have full confidence on MMP to provide excellent proofing/editing on the Korean rules. So don't freak out, everything will be fine.

I am happy to wait months before Korea.

You may want to wait a couple of weeks before ASLOK. And i'm happy to see you there.
 

Steven Pleva

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One could also use the cards to self balance the scenario. If you roll 2 for Rally, IFT, TH, MC, CC your opponent gets a card. If you roll 12 for Rally, IFT, TH, MC, CC then you get a card. Draw a red card for OBA, draw a card. I'm sure there are other options out there...
Steve
 

Jeffrey D Myers

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And i have full confidence on MMP to provide excellent proofing/editing on the Korean rules. So don't freak out, everything will be fine.
We MMP volunteers do our best, and Chas is a harsh taskmaster....

I'd say to feel free to freak out, everyone else here does! I do so frequently, but don't always type what I am thinking!
 

Justiciar

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You fret about Korea and the people like me could say about your design choices. But let me say, again, that i welcome the Korean module and found it a very worthwhile addition to the system. And i have full confidence on MMP to provide excellent proofing/editing on the Korean rules. So don't freak out, everything will be fine.

I am happy to wait months before Korea.

You may want to wait a couple of weeks before ASLOK. And i'm happy to see you there.
Sorry I don't follow your train of thought....

You are free to say whatever you want about my design choices re: 10th Mtn Div, Crete, STN, KGS, etc. Note I was not commenting on your design idea/concept, in the manner you think I am, I was merely asking for one concert example of your design. Say the way it is well known the CPVA will Step-Reduce exactly like the Japanese.

Note further Korea is not my design alone, but that of four others, as well. I was not even the 'originator' of it.

I had no doubt that before we submitted Korea to MMP, that the design and proofing was sound, though not perfect (whats is v2 and V3 often called for...I think there is errata out there on various ASL web sites, MMP included), because the background of all four of the designers...(in no order here) MM, KE, AH, LFT, HoB, DftB, etc.

You are reading FAR too much into my posts (perhaps b/c it is me). I am asking for one sample card.

I have not ventured anywhere near Spencer's "hard pass" nor said "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread." I am merely asking for one example...then maybe I could render some small, minor observation about the idea.

On the other hand Plea has posted wonderful examples of his concept for all to see and review.
 

sfcmikej

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Interesting idea you have there T. Not sure I would buy in but would definitely look. From a marketing standpoint I would have not used the title of this thread that you used. "Card Driven ASL" conjures the concept that you are using cards to play the game, perhaps instead of dice. Reading through your description I see that is not the case so the headline is misleading. Perhaps "Card Enhanced ASL" would garner less push back. Just a thought.

Mike
 

ecz

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I love new ideas and I'm really curious to see if this new option can really improve the game. I'm a great fan of (several, not all) the Pleva rules, for example.

I'm also curious to see how the many players that prefer to commit suicide rather than try once the IIFT (an official harmeless option that changes almost nothing in comparison), will approach the T-Cards instead. Probably more people will play also the IIFT at this point!

That said my only reserve is about the fact that sounds hard to say that adding cards to a dice game can mitigate the luck factor and/or favor skill over luck. Any new element that makes the game less predictable could be fun, but also reduces by definition the space for skill and calculation.
And the higher the number of cards, the less predictable are the events. We'll have 108 cards...
Do we really need more fun and less calculation?

Besides it seems that introducing cards change the very nature ultra dice-oriented of the game; a sort of Choatic mutation, like add gills to a camel.
 

nebel

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I like this to counter a good or bad roll or perhaps draw a card after rolling a dr6 on a sniper activation. But a hand of these available at any time would be too much change
 

Steven Pleva

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I like this to counter a good or bad roll or perhaps draw a card after rolling a dr6 on a sniper activation. But a hand of these available at any time would be too much change
I never played it with more than 2 or 3 cards in hand at any time. It was meant to add some flavor, not metamorphosize the game...
Steve
 

RobZagnut

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One could also use the cards to self balance the scenario. If you roll 2 for Rally, IFT, TH, MC, CC your opponent gets a card. If you roll 12 for Rally, IFT, TH, MC, CC then you get a card. Draw a red card for OBA, draw a card. I'm sure there are other options out there...
Steve
Yes, there are many options.

I like making it part of the SAN roll. Cards are powered 1-3, 3 being the most powerful.

1 = KIA Sniper
2 = Wound Sniper
3 = Play a 3 strength card
4 = Play a 2 strength card
5 = Play a 1 strength card
6 = NE
 

Mister T

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Interesting idea you have there T. Not sure I would buy in but would definitely look. From a marketing standpoint I would have not used the title of this thread that you used. "Card Driven ASL" conjures the concept that you are using cards to play the game, perhaps instead of dice. Reading through your description I see that is not the case so the headline is misleading. Perhaps "Card Enhanced ASL" would garner less push back. Just a thought.
Mike
Thanks for your interest. I wanted something that relates to an already existing concept, namely where you have action on the map that could be influenced by cards in the hands of players. Aware of this risk of confusion with other wargames i put a disclaimer in Post#1. Probably i should have made more prominent. I like 'card-enhanced ASL' BTW, which conveys a similar message.
 

Mister T

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That said my only reserve is about the fact that sounds hard to say that adding cards to a dice game can mitigate the luck factor and/or favor skill over luck. Any new element that makes the game less predictable could be fun, but also reduces by definition the space for skill and calculation.
And the higher the number of cards, the less predictable are the events. We'll have 108 cards...
Do we really need more fun and less calculation?
Besides it seems that introducing cards change the very nature ultra dice-oriented of the game; a sort of Choatic mutation, like add gills to a camel.
Thanks for your interest, as you know people who try new things always run the risk of being castigated. That's probably why no one tried to offer that to the community player before. We know that, for instance for Italy, there are lots of talent around when it comes to innovation, but these people are hampered by impediments of all sorts, angry competitors or untrustful counterparts. That tends to discourage innovation and by a weird twist of things encourage people to mock those people as it is commonly thought that nothing can change and it is more confortable to stand by and watch (or emigrate, an option chosen by many).

The thing i can say is that it was enjoyable to design the cards and i hope that people will like them.

The luck-mitigating factor behind the cards is not something that comes out of the blue. Take the instance one of my cards that change a 12 DR into a 11 DR. This is typically the type of card that has a luck-mitigating impact (or rather a bad luck-mitigating impact).

You point out the fact that there can be a lot of uncertainty arising from 108 cards. But some cards are present several times into the mix so that they have a better chance of finding their way out in the hands of players, well in the probabilistic spirit of ASL.

And introducing cards do not change the nature of the game, especially as cards exert a direct impact on dice results in the form of special drm/DRM added/substracted to specific dr/DRs. So dice remain king and cards are at their service (or more precisely at the service of players trying to influence their outcome).
 
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kcole4001

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"Enhanced" does seem more appropriate rather than 'driven', though I doubt the name will influence who will accept the concept or not.
 

Martin Mayers

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All sounds too stretched, to random, and a little silly, to me and I wouldn't use them/am not interested in them. I'd be very wary of 'big Ju Ju' cards. ie. cards which turn an opponents hard thought and fought win into defeat as a result of a card driven quirk of fate and such.

It's interesting the example you use of converting a 12 roll to an 11. Yet, sometimes, when that MG has been giving you some real jip, the respite comes when the opponent rolls 12. "He's had HIS fun". Changing that 12 to an 11 is too big a deal for me.

But good luck with them nevertheless. One man's milk is another man's poison and all that.

A marketing tip though...a special SS pack (comes with free wet wipes). I'll let you have that idea for free :nod:
 

Jacometti

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All sounds too stretched, to random, and a little silly, to me and I wouldn't use them/am not interested in them. I'd be very wary of 'big Ju Ju' cards. ie. cards which turn an opponents hard thought and fought win into defeat as a result of a card driven quirk of fate and such.

It's interesting the example you use of converting a 12 roll to an 11. Yet, sometimes, when that MG has been giving you some real jip, the respite comes when the opponent rolls 12. "He's had HIS fun". Changing that 12 to an 11 is too big a deal for me.

But good luck with them nevertheless. One man's milk is another man's poison and all that.

A marketing tip though...a special SS pack (comes with free wet wipes). I'll let you have that idea for free :nod:
Some guys will buy it at ASLOK and try it out. Some guys will then love it and say it is awesome. Many other guys will say it just wastes their time and distracts from playing ASL by all its existing rules.

What may be nice to have is a card, or honor rule, or Mr Potato, or Fez, to negate those one or two awful DRs that can ruin an otherwise great scenario.
 
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