Caprica

[Candice]

Anyone watching the spin-off series? IMO it is as good as BSG, and better in some ways. It doesn't feel rushed not does it reek of filler episodes. The story is character-driven and takes its time to develop. Not really a prequel, Caprica so far is more of a traditional sci-fi story which uses fantasy to explore issues we deal with in the real world.

I know the ending of BSG combined with the 4th season almost undid all coolness built up around BSG, but give Caprica a chance and stick through the pilot past the 30 min mark. It's worth your time if you liked BSG when it was at its best.

 

[Dr Zaius]

The ending of BSG almost pissed me off to the point where I don't want any of his stuff again. Almost. If Caprica is really good I might give it a chance.

It looks a bit like a soap opera. Is there even any sci-fi in there?

 

[Candice]

I still won't watch the last 15 mins. It's hard to even watch the first season knowing it will all be pissed away at the end. But enough about the failings of BSG. Let's talk about the successes of Caprica.

It is heavy on sci-fi. The colonies are independent worlds which very different customs and prejudices against one another. Joseph Adama goes by the name "Adams" on Caprica because he's a Tauron- known to be "dirt-eaters" and criminals. There is a "holo band" device which puts the user into a virtual reality free of consequences or morality. There are religious zealots who want to foist their monotheism on the colonies. The Cylons are just one prototype. Not to spoil the show, but it provides a somewhat credible origin to where the cylons come from.

The big problem with Caprica is that it doesn't seem to fit in with what BSG has told us about the origins of the colonists, the 1st earth, and Kobol. But that's nitpicking and I like what Caprica has done so far better than the version in BSG itself. The world of Caprica seems very much like ours, yet different enough that we can face issues that are taboo in this one. That's good sci-fi in my book.

Give the pilot a try. I didn't want to like it at all but was won over by the end. The beginning almost turned me off, but when the bombing occurs things improve.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

The ending of BSG almost pissed me off to the point where I don't want any of his stuff again. Almost.

I've been holding off on voicing any opinions about BSG until I've seen the entire series...but I can't hold my peace any more. Just what the heck did people see in BSG? With the exception of the opening movie - which was very good - I found the series to be an absolute snooze-fest. It is convoluted, contrived, overwrought and, at times, reminds me of a General Hospital set in space. I think it says a lot that it has taken about eight months for me just to get through seasons one and two (renting though NetFlix) as sitting through four episodes is enough to last me for a few months! When it was airing on TV I had the same reaction (which is why I stopped watching midway through the first season).

I truly believe the only reason BSG got as far as it did is because it is a step up from the childish sci-fi that has been coming out of Hollywood. Credit where credit is due. But BSG is still a long way from where I want sci-fi to be.

All in all, I am not surprised that the ending of BSG ticked off a lot of the fans. I am amazed it managed to get as far as it did without imploding.

Now...what was your question about Caprica?

 

[Candice]

It's hard to say exactly why I loved BSG... I suppose it was partly the post-911 mindset. I don't think I can do full justice to convince anyone who doesn't want to like BSG to change their minds. It's like Firefly; you either like it or you don't.

Some ideas on why I like BSG:

The characters. I like them all. Laura Roselyn's journey from a social liberal to being a hard-core war leader is just one character arc I enjoyed. Baltar not knowing if he's crazy or if Head Six is some sort of angel was great, too. Starbuck & Apollo's brother/sister/lover relationship gave tension. Col. Tigh became such a complicated character as the show progressed. Commander Adama is a flawed leader who has to project an aura of invincibility but has feet of clay.

I think the second season is the best BSG besides the pilot. The thrid and fourth got progressively less focused and increasingly pointless. The first season felt rather plodding at times. Maybe it was the potential of the show and its universe combined with the feeling that I was watching adult TV which gave BSG the magic at the time.

The music helps, too. Some of it you won't notice at the time, but the soundtracks are well worth a listen.

Scott, I don't know what to tell you. I think BSG was a cultural phenomenon among those who lived through it. It's hard to divorce what I, others, and the world was going through at the time from the show's own merits.

I'd be interested to hear what you want sci-fi to be. To me, BSG and Caprica are pretty much the epitome of what TV sci-fi can be.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Those are understandable points and I won't argue them. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying BSG is horrible or unwatchable, just that I find it to be a bag of gimmicks with only the illusion of a serious plot. Again, I think it did as well as it did because people are sick and tired of the after school sci-fi that has been coming out of Hollywood and TV, which even I consider a step below BSG. If nothing else, BSG operated at an adult level (i.e., issues of war, racism, politics, etc.), even if it is only a kitschy adult level.

As for what I want to see out of a sci-fi movie, well I suppose something that operates on the level of some of the books I like. How I would love to see The Lost Fleet made into a movie. Or Warhammer 40K. Or Hammer's Slammers. And lots of others. Problem is, Hollywood could take any one of those stories and turn it into a mess regardless of the source material.

I guess what I am asking for is a serious science fiction movie/series. One that deals with adult themes, but doesn't resort to the wild, personality-driven plot swings of BSG that reduced that show to a parody of what it started out to be.

(And now that I write this, I also realize that another problem for BSG is that it reminds me of a two hour movie desperately in search of a reason to be a series. I think they never had a good idea of what a regular series would be about to begin with...and it shows. They sort of just made it up as they went along. So we start out with a serious war story - which I could get into - and end up with a meandering plot filled with a whole lot of noise. Did you ever see the skit on Robot Chicken involving BSG's Ronald Moore? I've got a feeling that was based on fact. :laugh

I've been looking for my type of sci-fi on the TV/movies for forty years...and I'll let you know when I finally find it.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Found that vid:

[video=youtube;ujWdg7d-6Xk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWdg7d-6Xk[/video]

Soooo true!

 

[Candice]

Yes, they totally made it up as they went along. It does show. When it worked, it was great. The characters gave it a fidelity that compensated for weakness in plotting. Often, however, the show did grope blindly for plot points. It could have used a Babylon 5 level of planning to give it a coherent narrative. I think that's part of the reason that the fans felt so betrayed- there was an understanding that all would be revealed and that things would have some sort of meaning at the end. But of course it wasn't delivered on. It reminds me of the Matrix movies. I loved 1 & 2, then was totally dissapointed in 3. Any one of dozens of fan-fiction ideas would have been better than the drek that was Revolutions. Similar feelings apply to BSG.

Now, I think Caprica might have more potential to be fulfilling, with the caveat that it isn't quite as compelling a setup. Just as BSG reflected the feelings of the immediate post-911 populace, I think Caprica reflects our current decadence and enervation. Personally, I love their flipping of polytheism being the norm and monotheism being a dangerous aberration. It inverts our assumptions in the West that polytheism is backwards and primitive. Neat sci-fi.

Take a look at the pilot. There are many worse ways to spend 1:30.

 

[Dr Zaius]

I liked BSG because it had some fantastic battle scenes that were every bit as good as those in the better sci-fi space movies. I also liked that the characters were flawed and human, not ridiculously perfect like Star Trek: Next Generation. The Galactica itself was more believable than the ships found in most other sci-fi space films. It's primary armament was conventional and operations aboard the ship at least made an attempt to resemble something that might take place in the real world. You didn't see the whole senior staff of the Galactica beam down to investigate in person every time they found something interesting. They relied on scouts and enlisted personnel to perform important functions.

One other thing that made BSG good was the politics. Unlike Star Trek, everyone didn't just get along and slavishly follow every order. Instead, they complained, had relationships, and sometimes broke the rules. If BSG had a fault, it was that it took all this just a bit too far. The characters on the show were just a bit too flawed, discipline was nearly non-existent at times, and there were so many crazy plot twists and sub-plots that it eventually became a bit ridiculous.

BSG also deserves some credit for exploring the concept of spirituality and religion. It all got to be a bit cheesy at times, nevertheless, I can't remember the last time I've seen a sci-fi film that dealt with religion in a serious manner. Sci-fi directors usually dismiss religion as outmoded or some type of "natural" force seen among wise, but primitive indigenous peoples (like Avatar).

The first two seasons of BSG were excellent. After that, the show steadily declined until it morphed into the freak show that led to the absolutely horrid ending. That ending was so bad that it's now difficult for a lot of people to go back and watch earlier episodes knowing that the characters eventually all turn into fruit cakes and morons. Moore succeeded in ruining the good seasons of BSG in much the same way that Lucas ruined the original Star Wars.

 

[Candice]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who loved BSG's taking on religion. I just wish they didn't make the One God the only legitimate one by the end. The Colonists' gods need to have some power beyond some drugged-out hippies giving out prophecies.

If anything, BSG became far more of a soap opera than Caprica has started as. Gotta love the VFX in the space battles. Some beautiful things there. Apollo's heading into the flak zone comes to mind.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Now that you guys mention it, yes, I did find the take on religion in BSG to be refreshingly original. I really got a kick out of how Baltar was a scoffer that always laughed at the Cylon religion...but then came to understand that it was no joke.

Good point.