Can a HT AA MG make a TH DR on an AFV?

Houlie

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Question came up yesterday and it made me pause. It was a standard SPW250/1 with the lone AA MG trying to whack a T26. So, the AA MG is the MA of the HT, but is it eligible to make a TH/TK attempt on an AFV since it is an AA MG? Perhaps I am not remembering that an AA MG can attack an AFV for some reason.

We went ahead with the attack and it wiffed, so that was good, but it had us wondering. RB didn't seem to preclude it that I could see. Too, I tried the search function here with ZERO success.

Thanks, guys.
 

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Question came up yesterday and it made me pause. It was a standard SPW250/1 with the lone AA MG trying to whack a T26. So, the AA MG is the MA of the HT, but is it eligible to make a TH/TK attempt on an AFV since it is an AA MG? Perhaps I am not remembering that an AA MG can attack an AFV for some reason.
Any MG that is the MA can make a TH/TK [D3.54].

JR
 

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Question came up yesterday and it made me pause. It was a standard SPW250/1 with the lone AA MG trying to whack a T26. So, the AA MG is the MA of the HT, but is it eligible to make a TH/TK attempt on an AFV since it is an AA MG? Perhaps I am not remembering that an AA MG can attack an AFV for some reason.

We went ahead with the attack and it wiffed, so that was good, but it had us wondering. RB didn't seem to preclude it that I could see. Too, I tried the search function here with ZERO success.

Thanks, guys.
Yes it can as per the following:
  • C2.1 GUNS/SW: Any ordnance-capable weapon depicted on a ⅝" counter is termed a Gun, while any on a ½" counter is a SW. Unlike SW [EXC: U.S. RCL; 12.2],...
  • INDEX: Ordnance (any Weapon which must score a hit on a To Hit Table before rolling again on the IFT or To Kill Table to resolve that hit)...
  • INDEX: Weapon (Any SW/Gun/Vehicular-armament/Daisy-Chain/MOL using the IFT/TK table to cause damage to the opponent)
  • INDEX: MA (Main Armament; the main Weapon on a Vehicle...
  • D1.3 MAIN ARMAMENT (MA) TYPE: Each armed vehicle has one MA Inherent weapon. The MA is shown as a large number representing its MA Gun Caliber Size (C2.21), or by the appropriate acronym for its MA MG, FT or ATR, in the bottom left-hand corner of the counter. The MA is either turret-mounted (1.31-.322) or bow-mounted (i.e., non-turreted; 1.33) [EXC: MA AAMG; 1.83].
 

Houlie

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Awesome, guys. After my opponent and I talked about it, it made sense, but for some reason, the AA part of it still threw me. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Eagle4ty

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Awesome, guys. After my opponent and I talked about it, it made sense, but for some reason, the AA part of it still threw me. Thanks for clearing that up.
:giggle: Now if you would "throw" a game to me once in a while, i'd feel happy!:whistle:
 

sdennis

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I think I was in Chicago at the Open years ago when someone made this "discovery" and it was a topic of discussion all weekend.
 

Philippe R

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It's even more possible that a specific TH Bounding Fire DRM is allocated to AA MA TH : +2 instead of the usual +4. Check your C.3 TH DRM table and you will use AAMG against soft skinned AFV a different way.
 

von Marwitz

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It's even more possible that a specific TH Bounding Fire DRM is allocated to AA MA TH : +2 instead of the usual +4. Check your C.3 TH DRM table and you will use AAMG against soft skinned AFV a different way.
That is correct.

This often overlooked little gem makes Halftracks with an AA MA more dangerous in early war scenarios against opposing thin skinned tin cans. The chances of hitting them as part of a "charge forward, stop to shoot the sucker point blank with enhanced TK#, and then scurry away back into cover"-attack are markedly higher.

von Marwitz
 

Robin Reeve

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I remember a fanzine (ASL News perhaps) with a drawing of an SPW 251/1 chasing a T-26, with the comment that such things can happen.
 

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It's even more possible that a specific TH Bounding Fire DRM is allocated to AA MA TH : +2 instead of the usual +4. Check your C.3 TH DRM table and you will use AAMG against soft skinned AFV a different way.
I have looked at this chart perhaps a thousand times, but I never noticed this! It's right there!
 

Russ Isaia

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It's even more possible that a specific TH Bounding Fire DRM is allocated to AA MA TH : +2 instead of the usual +4. Check your C.3 TH DRM table and you will use AAMG against soft skinned AFV a different way.
I have looked at this chart perhaps a thousand times, but I never noticed this! It's right there!
Sorry to be late to this thread, but "right where" is this +2 DRM for AA MG?
 

mgmasl

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At the end of the Example
 

Paul M. Weir

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Using a MA AAMG on something like a SdKfz 250/1 as an AT weapon is not something I would have tried, a 12.7: yes, a rifle calibre MG: no.
 

Russ Isaia

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B [...] +2
C Bounding Firer ...... Case B plus [MA AAMG: 0] [Stabilized Gun: +1] [T/ST: +2] [NT/PRC: +3]
I see it at the end of the Example in C5.3 (thx mgmasl) but the bracketed material about MA AAMG you quote is not in my C divider, Table C5 nor in the list of the official Errata to the Second Edition RB Tables. I do see it in the VASL version of the Table, however. Is that where you saw it?

I am not doubting the rule here, just nervous that if my divider is out-of-date in this respect then maybe it is missing other things as well!:oops:

Edit: Just noticed "PRC" also does not appear in Table C5 on the divider, but also is in the VASL version of that Table.
 

Eagle4ty

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I see it at the end of the Example in C5.3 (thx mgmasl) but the bracketed material about MA AAMG you quote is not in my C divider, Table C5 nor in the list of the official Errata to the Second Edition RB Tables. I do see it in the VASL version of the Table, however. Is that where you saw it?

I am not doubting the rule here, just nervous that if my divider is out-of-date in this respect then maybe it is missing other things as well!:oops:

Edit: Just noticed "PRC" also does not appear in Table C5 on the divider, but also is in the VASL version of that Table.
I don't think your charts are wrong as the only other place I found the annotation was on the Ole Boe charts. However, one could arrive at the same conclusion by reading C5.2 as an AAMG has no CA restrictions (normally).
NOTE: There have been a few clarifications and errata to certain publications of the charts but these are noted on the MMP site and if you have the BV3 edition those should be the most current.
 

Russ Isaia

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It's from Ole Boe's IFT(M)QRDC3.6
Don't tell me there are errors on it, that's the table I use for (almost) everything!
No errors that I know of. Looks like Ole Boe took the liberty of enhancing the table by filling in some omissions.

I would have preferred that the enhanced table somehow indicate what is official and what is enhancement. But at least now I know to first ask, "what version of that table did you see that in?" before engaging in a rules debate.
 
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