Bruce's other question from consimworld was, what happens when a DC Hero is wounded? A wounded SMC has 0 IPC, and the HW rules say that a HW unit cannot carry more than its IPC. Does the Hero drop the DC and continue the charge?
Can a DC Hero Drop a DC?
- Thread starter Aaron Cleavin
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Cult.44
Senior Member
Brilliant! I'm going to use this one on Curtis and see if he explodes.
von Marwitz
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ctewks
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The only other instance this might be beneficial is your wounded DC Hero is reduced to 0 IPC when he is wounded and has only 1 MF left (at best). (3 MF total, used 1, loses 1 for a 1PP sw, then only has the 1MF remaining)
bprobst
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I didn't do it because I was trying to be "tricky". I did it because there were no other options to do anything else even remotely useful. The DC Hero did not have the MF to enter the target hex in the MPh (although he could advance in). If the rules dictated that he lug the useless DC into the target hex in the APh and then just stare at it, wondering how it works, until he suddenly expires at the end of the CCPh, having accomplished nothing much ... well, that would be what the rules say. However, while the rules discuss a great deal about what he can do, what he can't do, and what he must do, nowhere in those paragraphs is there any statement along the lines of "he must hold on to it until he dies".
I don't see the point of allowing him to advance (with or without the DC) but then prohibiting him from doing anything useful from that point. What I would like to see as the rule is "he cannot drop the DC once it has been given to him, but he is allowed to detonate it once he reaches the target hex, whether that's in the MPh or the APh (or CCPh)". If there was some additional penalty for not detonating it until the APh/CCPh (Area fire?) then I'd still be OK with it.
The additional extra-sleazy tactic of giving him the DC just so he can drop it immediately (presumably so that he will then run off and occupy the target hex preventing any fire out of it) didn't even occur to me, but it's certainly an additional incentive to add some errata here.
Eagle4ty
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A DC Hero is a rule sub-set of THH not a completely different rule; drops the DC he's a THH. It talks about what a THH does when possessing a DC but in no way makes him anything less than the G1.42 "suicide hero". Pretty basic I would think (of course there's always room for jello).
[EDIT] Another tidbit that makes me think a DC Hero dropping a DC would be considered a normal T-H Hero thereafter is this snippet from G1.423 "...except to receive a DC as per 1.424..."
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AdrianE
Senior Member
Could the DC hero throw the DC as Advancing Fire?
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
No.
G1.424:
"...A DC Hero may not Place/Throw a DC in the normal manner, and may not make a CC attack. "
Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
If the DC hero dies during his charge, what happens to the DC he is carrying?
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
The DC stops and grieves for a short while....then.....
G1.425:
"....The elimination of a DC Hero also eliminates his DC. "
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Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
A bar and a half of "Taps" then bang...
That's fine, I just didn't want the possiblilty of the DC being removed if he drops it but not if he dies.
Eagle4ty
Forum Guru
No, see the last sentence of the 1st paragraph, G1.424 "A DC Hero may not Place/Throw a DC in the normal manner, and may not make a CC attack.".
Aaron Cleavin
Elder Member
The answer has been given:
A nice lockdown.
G1.424 DC Hero's and "their" DC
1. Can a DC hero drop a DC? 1a. If yes is the Dc still eliminated at the end of the player turn No, he cannot voluntarily cease being a DC Hero, which entails possessing a DC. 2. Can a DC hero detonate a DC in CC after the advance phase? No. ....Perry MMP
www.gamesquad.com
A nice lockdown.
bprobst
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You didn't ask whether he is forced to drop the DC when wounded, since he is performing a Banzai Charge and carrying more than your IPC is prohibited in a Banzai Charge?
I have no objection to the answer (of course, it isn't real until errata is issued) but it is disappointing in that it still permits a DC Hero that didn't reach his target in the MPh to advance for no purpose whatsover. Why not just say that he is eliminated at the end of the MPh? I don't see what is gained, in rules or in play, by requiring him to hang around uselessly until the end of the turn.
I have no objection to the answer (of course, it isn't real until errata is issued) but it is disappointing in that it still permits a DC Hero that didn't reach his target in the MPh to advance for no purpose whatsover. Why not just say that he is eliminated at the end of the MPh? I don't see what is gained, in rules or in play, by requiring him to hang around uselessly until the end of the turn.
Aaron Cleavin
Elder Member
It most certainly is "real" whether or not is is official is another matter.
For now I would say Q&A to higher numbered rule takes precedence on can't carry vs can't drop question when wounded.
When he advances he can't attack but he could be ambushed, or if eliminated on a 2 could allow infiltration. so not completely no purpose.
bprobst
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Well, it isn't official, so there's that. It becomes official when it becomes errata, i.e., it exists in my rulebook.
There's no "precedence" involved. It's either in the rulebook or it isn't. Be that as it may I'm happy to accept the spirit of the unofficial Q&A in the meantime and eagerly look forward to it becoming real.
Hmm. So what you're saying is that the only point of a wounded DC Hero after he fails to enter his target hex in the MPh is that he may prove of value to the DEFENDER in the CCPh. Yay?
However of course if other units have already entered the hex during the MPh (via a "normal" Banzai), the (now LAX) DC Hero advancing in may well precipitate an ambush, likely to be disadvantageous to the ATTACKER. So in any case the sensible option would usually be to not advance the DC Hero at all (there's no requirement that he do so that I can see).
All that being said ... there is one useful possibility that occurs to me, albeit a relatively unlikely one. The EXC to the requirement that he die automatically at the end of the turn is if he is locked in Melee (G1.425). If the presence of the DC Hero (even though he is unable to attack) changes the odds, such that there is a reasonable probability that the Japanese units involved will not be eliminated, then by all means send him in. The Japanese player might even want him there to decrease the chances of the CC being HtH (perhaps the only circumstance where you actively hope that your opponent succeeds in ambushing you!). Perhaps the situation becoming a Melee will be of use to the Japanese player. (I guess all of this is true of regular THH as well.)
It seems unlikely to me that any of this was the intent when the DC Heroes rules were concocted, but there we are.
Aaron Cleavin
Elder Member
Aaron Cleavin
Elder Member
Was only here referring to the apparent contradiction of having to drop the DC because of having 0 PP vs the new ruling that a DC Hero could not Drop a DC.
Aaron Cleavin
Elder Member
" don't see what is gained, in rules or in play, by requiring him to hang around uselessly until the end of the turn. "
You said you didn't see the point I offered one purpose and you found some more. Trying to divine the original intent of ASL rules writers, is as we know fraught as those trying to find the intent of the original framers of the US constitution, doesn't stop people trying in both cases though.