C9.3, A4.41, A7.25 Mortars, Moving Spotters, and Opportunity Fire

EJ1

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Hi Aaron, the question that might be submitted would come from post #6, Binchois' post. Cheers
 

Russ Isaia

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No, a Spotter must be designated during the PFPh/DFPh (only) and must be marked with an appropriate Fire counter at that time (C9.3). If the Spotter is attempting Opportunity Fire it is marked OPP FIRE (Bounding Fire) and cannot move (A7.25).
If you are going to rely on that sentence, are you not saying that a spotter renews his credentials, his "designation," as a spotter every Player Turn in which the mortar(s) he is spotting for does fire (PFPh/DFPh) or intends to fire (the AFPh)?

I'm not saying your explanation is wrong. Indeed, I think it is superior to Binchois' referral to the use of the Spotter's LOS as attracting a OF counter. It is just not easy to see in the words of the rule.

BTW, I distrust Binchois' explanation only because there is nothing in the rule about the Spotter having to have a LOS to any target for the mortar to be designated as an OF. In this respect, I think Spotters are like every Opportunity Firer other than a mortar, none of which (as I read A7.25) need a target, in LOS or otherwise, to be designated as an OF.
 

Binchois

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BTW, I distrust Binchois' explanation only because there is nothing in the rule about the Spotter having to have a LOS to any target for the mortar to be designated as an OF. In this respect, I think Spotters are like every Opportunity Firer other than a mortar, none of which (as I read A7.25) need a target, in LOS or otherwise, to be designated as an OF.
Isn't that about the only thing the rule actually does say?

C9.3: A mortar cannot be designated for Opportunity Fire if it has no Spotter (9.3) and its intended target is out of its LOS. [cited ad infinitum ]​
While I don't know how strictly we have to apply Paul's strict logic (see above). But even if we do, then the following happens when no enemy is in LOS to the MTR:

1) MTR has no Spotter: it cannot OF.
2) MTR has Spotter: it can OF, but it's the Spotter that allows this capability.

The latter is why I think the Spotter should get an OF (if not a Prep Fire) counter. Since the MTR required the spotter to OF, the Spotter is being used "to spot" at that moment and that counts as a SW use.

But feel free to disagree with me. I am usually quite suspicious of my own logic! I really think this wades into essentially unknowable territory and needs an official verdict to be resolved.
 

Justiciar

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C9.3: A mortar cannot be designated for Opportunity Fire if it has no Spotter (9.3) and its intended target is out of its LOS. [cited ad infinitum ]​
Separate point. How do you enforce this...the mortar can claim its target is some woods in LOS as its intended target in case a HIPster pops up there. Okay so no HIP item in the scenario...same woods line is the intended target...I might want to start gaining AQ for for future smoke placement or enemy move that way, based on my upcoming plans for movement in my turn (i.e. when I place the OF)...and so on....maybe I am missing something...
 

jrv

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Separate point. How do you enforce this...the mortar can claim its target is some woods in LOS as its intended target in case a HIPster pops up there. Okay so no HIP item in the scenario...same woods line is the intended target...I might want to start gaining AQ for for future smoke placement or enemy move that way, based on my upcoming plans for movement in my turn (i.e. when I place the OF)...and so on....maybe I am missing something...
Since ordnance can attack "a hex devoid of such" [C3.41], I think this only comes into play if the MTR can't attack any hex it can see, e.g. if it has a minimum range > 1 and it is in the middle of LOS obstacles like in a hex surrounded by woods hexes. But that's only a guess, and I don't know how Perry would rule on the matter.

JR
 

Russ Isaia

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On the contrary, I agree with your conclusion, and you are spot on with your reasoning (no pun intended) until you get to the question: where does the spotter's OF counter come from? Which words, which rule? You refer to the phrase "to spot" but those are not the ones that attract "an appropriate Fire counter" according to the rule in C9.3. And A7.25 makes no mention of putting a counter on the spotter. Eagle4Ty was relying on the predesignation sentence in C9.3 but that just doesn't do it at least for me as an explanation for the rule we all agree on.

In reality, spotters should have be addressed, exactly as you, me and Eagle4Ty agree should be the treatment, in C7.25: "Any Good Order Infantry/Cavalry (and any Spotter therefor, see, C9.3) . . .."

But perfection is found only in a far different reality.
 
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