C1.34 and C1.22 FFE:C Removal after involuntary loss of radio contact.

[General Mayhem]

Situation is as follows:

A German FFE:C is on board and it is the American Player turn. During the American Prep Fire phase the German OBA observer is broken.

During the Def Fire phase the broken leader cannot maintain radio contact so this is an involuntary loss of contact. The wording of C1.34, which deals with radio contact and battery access when a FFE:C is on board, states that regardless of the outcome the fire mission is cancelled. I believe this is saying that the FFE:C would be removed at this point i.e. in the Def fire phase when radio contact is not maintained even though it is involuntary.

My opponent feels that C1.22 which deals with involuntary loss of radio contact states that the FFE:C is removed at the start of the next rally phase. I feel that this rule is saying that if radio contact is lost involuntarily then an FFE continues to be resolved normally and IF there is still an FFE:C on board at the end of the next rally phase it is then removed. In my opinion in the situation above the normal resolution of the FFE would remove it before the next rally phase.

So who is right? When is the FFE:C removed?

 

[Brian W]

At the start of the DFPh, the FFE:C is removed.

 

[SCK40]

My two cents: I think you remove it right away. This is one of the places where the flowchart falls down slighlty.

COntact? No.
SR or FFE:2 on board? No.

Thus you end OBA actions for the turn. Since the Mission is Canceled, you remove the FFE:C immediately per C1.35 once the Contact/Access procedure has failed. I think it would be helpful if this was noted in the first red oval of the Contact and Access column of the chart.

Side comment: I note that there isn't anything on the ASOP regarding the removal of FFE:C at the end of RPh. May be a good addition to the next edition, and a good addition for people to make to their own copies (electronic or otherwise) in the meantime.

This leads to another question: Exactly when at the end of the RPh would the FFE:C come off on those occasions? It may make a difference in terms of choosing to claim WA (and thus potentially being susceptible to attack by becoming more vulnerable) as noted in C1.51.

 

[Brian W]

This leads to another question: Exactly when at the end of the RPh would the FFE:C come off on those occasions? It may make a difference in terms of choosing to claim WA (and thus potentially being susceptible to attack by becoming more vulnerable) as noted in C1.51.

There are no attacks made in the RPh. Only the MPh/RtPh/APh/CCPh, per C1.51.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

A German FFE:C is on board and it is the American Player turn. During the American Prep Fire phase the German OBA observer is broken.

Note also that since the FFE:C was onboard at the end of this turn's Rally Phase - Battery Access for the Fire Mission is now lost, per C1.21.
"...Battery Access is retained until the end of a RPh in which that battery has a FFE:C counter onboard ..."

 

[General Mayhem]

Thanks to all for the responses. Re Klas's comment on loss of battery access at end of rally phase when FFE:C on board – not sure whether it makes any difference, but something else I have never done properly. In the past I have always changed the battery access marker when battery access was either gained or lost, immediately after radio contact.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

...Re Klas's comment on loss of battery access at end of rally phase when FFE:C on board – not sure whether it makes any difference,...

Not sure either, though it should it make it more clear that the FFE:C is removed in the DFPh in your example - it would seems a bit strange if a FFE:C would continue if Battry Access has already been lost.

 

[Wayne]

This is one of the places where the flowchart falls down slightly.

Here's a little rules glue:

ASL Pre-OBA-Flowchart Flowchart

In any phase:
Did Observer just lose Good Order? {Fixes an OBA Flowchart (radio Contact box) omission}

Y: Is that Observer in Contact?

Y: Not anymore: flip Battery X Contact to Battery X No Contact, immediately (C1.61).
​

End of RPh:
Any FFE:C on board? {Fixes an ASOP omission}

Y: Battery Access is now lost (C1.21). Is Observer for that FFE:C in Contact?

Y: FFE:C remains in place.
N: Remove FFE:C (C1.22).
​

Start of Observer's PFPh or DFPh:
Is Observer in Good Order? {Fixes some OBA Flowchart and ASOP omissions}

Y: Does Observer Voluntarily lose Contact?

Y: Lose Access and remove that Observer's SR/FFE counters, if any (C1.22).
N: Goto OBA-Flowchart.
​

N: Does that Observer have an FFE:C on board?

Y: Battery Access (prev. lost) not regained; mission expires and FFE:C is removed (C1.34).
​

Start of RtPh:
Does the Observer Voluntarily break? {Fixes an ASOP omission}

Y: Was that Observer in Contact?

Y: Lose Access and remove that Observer's SR/FFE counters, if any (C1.22).
​

I think that pretty much does it.

 

[Wayne]

Same as above, but pretty: