Bypassing vehicle fires into own hex

[Will Fleming]

Does it get the +1 for restricted TCA options while in bypass?

Say it is a woods, is the shot +1 (woods) or +2 (woods and the first shot at a target in the 'wide' TCA)?

 

[jrv]

Does it get the +1 for restricted TCA options while in bypass?

Say it is a woods, is the shot +1 (woods) or +2 (woods and the first shot at a target in the 'wide' TCA)?

Per the D2.321 and its EX, the hex the vehicle is in is in its side TCA. It must pay case A on an unacquired target (even if it did not change TCA) and also must pay an additional +1 if it does change TCA into/through the side TCA. The answer depends on the turret traverse speed and whether the turret actually has to change TCA, and will range from a +1 for a fast turret that is already pointed at the side TCA (case A only) to a +5 for a "NT" turret (e.g. the KV-2) that is pointed at the side opposite (+3 for first TCA change, +1 for next and +1 for changing into/through a bypass-side TCA). Note that the penalty is not +1 if not changing TCA, but rather an application of case A. Add TEM to that.

If you are assuming that the vehicle does not change TCA, in which case the answer depends on which vehicle--in particular its turret traverse speed--it is, and will range from +2 to +4 total case A (fast to NT traverse speed) and TEM against an unacquired target.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

Per the D2.321 and its EX, the hex the vehicle is in is in its side TCA. It must pay case A on an unacquired target (even if it did not change TCA)

Looky here! That's a think I have always missed!

So far I have applied the +1 Side CA DRM while in Bypass for any shot in that CA - including vs. acquired targets.
It does make sense ruleswise not to apply it vs. acquired targets, yet - always missed that detail.

von Marwitz

 

[jrv]

Looky here! That's a think I have always missed!

So far I have applied the +1 Side CA DRM while in Bypass for any shot in that CA - including vs. acquired targets.
It does make sense ruleswise not to apply it vs. acquired targets, yet - always missed that detail.

You should not apply a constant +1 DRM to a side TCA attack. You should add case A (+1, +2 or in rare cases +3). In addition you should add a constant +1 if you changed TCA to/through the side CA.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

I should read posts and rules more thoroughly...

This is what I did wrong:

"A TCA based on a Bypass side Target Facing covers a potentially much larger Field of Fire (all hexes on that side of the firer between the front and rear Target Facings) and consequently must pay appropriate Case A (C5.1) penalties for firing within this enlarged CA even if it does not change its TCA [EXC: a weapon firing with an already earned Target Acquisition DRM (or, in the case of a CMG/IFE/Canister, vs the same Known target in the same Target Facing as last fired on) does not have to add Case A to fire within its current CA]"

This is what I did right:

"A TCA change to or through a Bypass side Target Facing must suffer an additional +1 To Hit DRM in addition to normal Case A DRM."


von Marwitz

 

[Michael R]

I should read posts and rules more thoroughly...

This is what I did wrong:

"A TCA based on a Bypass side Target Facing covers a potentially much larger Field of Fire (all hexes on that side of the firer between the front and rear Target Facings) and consequently must pay appropriate Case A (C5.1) penalties for firing within this enlarged CA even if it does not change its TCA [EXC: a weapon firing with an already earned Target Acquisition DRM (or, in the case of a CMG/IFE/Canister, vs the same Known target in the same Target Facing as last fired on) does not have to add Case A to fire within its current CA]"

This is what I did right:

"A TCA change to or through a Bypass side Target Facing must suffer an additional +1 To Hit DRM in addition to normal Case A DRM."


von Marwitz

Me too

 

[Pyth]

I've been doing this correctly except for one big thing which I do not understand. How can you have a NT penalty at all firing into a hex from bypass? Please explain what I'm missing here: NT means to change the weapon's facing the vehicle must VCA change. And there's no vca facing into a hex from bypass. I've been playing that a vehicle in bypass of an obstacle (a woods hex, lets say) cannot fire into the obstacle with bow mounted weapons only turreted weapons... Otherwise firing a bow mounted weapon would leave your unit facing perpendicular to the hex-spine which is NA, isn't it?

 

[jrv]

I've been doing this correctly except for one big thing which I do not understand. How can you have a NT penalty at all firing into a hex from bypass? Please explain what I'm missing here: NT means to change the weapon's facing the vehicle must VCA change. And there's no vca facing into a hex from bypass. I've been playing that a vehicle in bypass of an obstacle (a woods hex, lets say) cannot fire into the obstacle with bow mounted weapons only turreted weapons... Otherwise firing a bow mounted weapon would leave your unit facing perpendicular to the hex-spine which is NA, isn't it?

The KV-2 (and perhaps other tanks) has a turret but pays the "NT" cost for changing TCA. See Soviet Vehicle Note 24.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

Note also, if firing at the unit in the same hex as you're bypassing Case E would also apply for an additional +4.

 

[Will Fleming]

This was just firing the CMG. No acq is gained, but if it is the first shot at a target (location?) it gets the extra +1.

Thanks all for the good discussion and points.

 

[Eagle4ty]

This was just firing the CMG. No acq is gained, but if it is the first shot at a target (location?) it gets the extra +1.

Thanks all for the good discussion and points.

Hopefully it wasn't on a narrow street, you might not even get the chance to change the TCA at all!

 

[MajorDomo]

So, wait until AFPh, acquire with your MA. Then grease the woods defender with your CMG as he is now acquired.



Rich

 

[jrv]

As a bit of trivia, the Soviet ZSU-37 also pays NT TCA change costs.

JR

 

[Will Fleming]

Just board 12 vanilla "Anvil of Victory" type stuff (no narrow streets).

One of my personal favorite boards for some reason. Opponent rolled a colored 'six' and his best AFV found one of the cellars there, which will only add to my affections and pleasant memories on that bit of ASL geography.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Note also, if firing at the unit in the same hex as you're bypassing Case E would also apply for an additional +4.

+2 only.

C5.5:
"...The Case E DRM is doubled if the firer is in a woods/building/rubble hex (unless in Bypass)...."

 

[Eagle4ty]

+2 only.

C5.5:
"...The Case E DRM is doubled if the firer is in a woods/building/rubble hex (unless in Bypass)...."

Yup! Pays to look at the chart prior to posting, & what's worse, I knew that!:facepalm:

 

[von Marwitz]

If you've never been Klas-whacked, you ain't real!

von Marwitz

 

[Will Fleming]

So does a vehicle in bypass of a woods/building hex in the woods part pay double?