Bypassing AFV AAMG w/ fixed VCA in CC

[Houlie]

Sitrep: Immobile StuG in bypass of a building with an AAMG w/ VCA-only fire. A11.62 states a CMG w/ VCA-only fire is not eligible to attack. Would this also be true for an AAMG? Unless I am missing some immutable law of physics, is the AAMG not also restricted? We looked, but didn't find anything else on this topic. Is this covered anywhere else? Many thanks!

 

[buser333]

I don't see anything either that says an AAMG is restricted the same in CC, but I agree it would sure seem it would be.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Don't think the AAMG is restricted as a CMG is. Fire away!

 

[Robin Reeve]

The problem here is the VCA fixed AAMG.
It actually works quite like a BMG.
But as the rule is not clear on that special feature, "ASL physics" click in.

 

[Houlie]

The problem here is the VCA fixed AAMG.
It actually works quite like a BMG.
But as the rule is not clear on that special feature, "ASL physics" click in.

Exactly. The fixed VCA mounting is what makes this all super-funky.

Perry! Help!

 

[KenYoung]

D1.82 COAXIAL MG (CMG): ... If a vehicle's CMG is restricted to firing only through its VCA (shown by "CMG: VCA Only" on the counter back), that CMG may not be used to attack in CC but it does serve to void the -1 CC DRM for an attack vs a vehicle "without manned, functioning MG armament" (A11.51).

D1.83 ANTI-AIRCRAFT MG (AAMG): The AAMG FP may be used either within or outside of its vehicular current TCA/VCA at no penalty; i.e., for rules purposes it is considered neither "turret-mounted" nor "bow-mounted" (3.51) [EXC: AAMG with restricted CA (e.g., German StuG IIIG or French H35) must pay the applicable Case A penalty for changing TCA/VCA as appropriate].

As noted above, the CMG is NA to attack in CC. But there is no restriction o the AAMG (even if the AAMG can only fire in its VCA).

 

[Paul M. Weir]

This stuck in my mind but after a good sleep ...

CMG and BMG with a few exceptions are mounted in some kind of frames. The Panther D, an exception, just had an openable vertical letterbox flap through which the BMG was poked. The JgPz IV had one or two proper ball mounting(s) covered by a rotating cone, but the BMG is very rarely photographed fitted. So in general they took at least a little time to remove.

With the StuG/StuH III G (most production) and H35 the AAMG had a mounting point that could take the AAMG but the manning crewman would have to be in an awkward and utterly exposed position and pose to fire other than through the VCA. In the case of the StuG a pin in the small U shaped mount attached to the MG dropped into one of two sockets welded to the AAMG shield (one below the MG hold, one on the top edge). It would only take a second or two to mount/dismount the AAMG. There were no fiddly screws/wing nuts/levers to open, just lift and remove. As far as I know the H35 was similar. Both MGs were nothing like the weight of the equivalent US 0.50", either.

So restricting fire to VCA would reflect normal firing practice, with one's body at least partly shielded by armour. In a emergency (eg CC), the MG could be very, very quickly dismounted and fired in any direction. So though an annoying inconsistency in the rules, it could be said to have some basis in reality.

So allowing its full use in CC is not as bad as it seems.

For those who like special rule tweaks:
The StuG was one of the few AFV where the AAMG was manned by the loader, usually manned by the commander in other AFV. Reduce the RoF to 0 if the AAMG is fired?
The KV1 turret had 3 crew, commander/gunner, loader and the turret rear MG gunner who also manned the AAMG or could help load. Allow [1] RoF OR fire RCMG OR fire AAMG in addition to normal fire?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Anyway, being engaged in CC while CE is not really recommended...
And if a Stug III(L), BU is mandatory to use the much more efficient Nahverteidigungswaffe.

 

[Houlie]

Then one might argue that if a squad with a bazooka runs up in open ground with a 9-2 leader that this threat is as grave as CC -- or even moreso, but cannot pull the AAMG from its mount and fire with no penalty whatsoever as is posited in the rationale provided. Very inconsistent.