Bypass "out the side Gate" ??

[Stewart]

Can you bypass the F3-E3 hexside as infantry and then Enter E3?

I.e. stopping midway and taking a right?

The example on Page A7 seems to indicate no.

 

[Brian W]

Hmm, I was going to say yes, but without a road, I wonder.

Some wall/hedge hexsides such as 6W9-X9 have obvious gaps in them which can be crossed without paying the wall/hedge MF/MP penalty (by using the road if one exists).

 

[jrv]

Hmm, I was going to say yes, but without a road, I wonder.

Using the road has implications for LOS [A4.132], AT-Set DCs [G1.6121] and possibly other reasons. I wouldn't read the rule as saying that you can't use a gap without a road, but rather that if you cross a gap and that gap has a road, you are using that road.

B9.4 May a wall/hedge hexside with an “obvious gap” (but no road depiction) be crossed without paying the extra movement cost? May walls/hedges with “obvious gaps” (whether there is a road or not) be crossed by expending the additional movement cost for a wall/hedge if desired?
A. Yes to both. {4}

JR

 

[Brian W]

rather that if you cross a gap and that gap has a road, you are using that road

Okay, I'll live with that.

Can you bypass the F3-E3 hexside as infantry and then Enter E3?

SO, my response is Yes, although I' think you mean enter E3 for COT (1MF) and not 1 MF + COT (2 MF).

 

[jrv]

This Q&A seems to allow exiting "sideways".

A4.3 Can a unit bypass just a hex vertex, e.g., assuming walls are bocage, could a infantry unit in 3U4 bypass in hex T4 along the T4-T3-U4 vertex, and enter T3 at a cost of 3 MF, instead of crossing the T3-U4 hexside for a total cost of 4 MF?
A. No, a unit must bypass along an entire hexside; but in this situation, the unit could bypass along the T3-T4 hexside to the T3-T4-S4 vertex and then enter T3 at a cost of 3 MF. See the A4.31 Example. [Compil8]

However that seems contradicted by the A4.31 EX, which flatly states that the only hexes that can be exited into after bypass are the ones across the vertices. I would read the current rules as only allowing exit of the hex at the vertices, however "common sense" the other notion is.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Can you bypass the F3-E3 hexside as infantry and then Enter E3?

I.e. stopping midway and taking a right?

The example on Page A7 seems to indicate no.

Yes you may. But you are not stopping midway, you are entering E3 from the vertex.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This Q&A seems to allow exiting "sideways".



However that seems contradicted by the A4.31 EX, which flatly states that the only hexes that can be exited into after bypass are the ones across the vertices. I would read the current rules as only allowing exit of the hex at the vertices, however "common sense" the other notion is.

JR

The Q&A is in line with the A4.31 example.

 

[Stewart]

So you can enter the hex opposite the bypassed hexside? Even though the example says you can't?

Taking the example form the Q&A and expand the hex a bit...say the bocage surrounds the hex...you can still "backtrack" through the opening?

The opening isn't on the vertex, but rather the center of the hexside.

So in my pic above...he'd be crossing the vertex bocage which is depicted on each of the other hexsides of E3

The limitation of hex entry after the bypass seems to indicate that the unit is "at the vertex"...so if you wanted to "backtrack" after bypassing 2 hexsides, you'd have to bypass backwards the 2nd hexside of the first bypass for 1 more MF and then back into the "forbidden" terrain In the example.

https://gyazo.com/8055c34c90068a73f77537aad2711b64

 

[jrv]

The Q&A is in line with the A4.31 example.

According to the Q&A, in the A4.31 EX one can enter in bypass of D4 from D3 on D4/C4 hexside, then exit into C4. According to the A4.31 example, the only hexes that can be entered from bypass are C5 and D5. C4 is not given as a possibility. That seems inconsistent.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

According to the Q&A, in the A4.31 EX one can enter in bypass of D4 from D3 on D4/C4 hexside, then exit into C4. According to the A4.31 example, the only hexes that can be entered from bypass are C5 and D5. C4 is not given as a possibility. That seems inconsistent.

"EX: The squad in 2D3 may Bypass D4 by moving in D4 along the D4-C4 and D4-C5 hexsides at a cost of one MF. However, it will cost the squad two additional MF to enter D5 because of the wall hexside, whereas it will cost only one MF to enter C5 even though the wall hexside extends to the D4-C5-D5 vertex. The squad cannot move into any hex other than C5 or D5 at this point during its MPh,..."

When the example says "The squad cannot move into any hex other than C5 or D5 at this point during its MPh," - it assumes you have used bypass along two hexsides, to vertex D4-D5-C5, otherwise the red text makes no sense.

From there you can only enter D5 and C5.

So if you only use bypass along one hexside, to vertex D4-C4-C5, it (IMO) stands to reason you can from there enter C4 or C5.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

So you can enter the hex opposite the bypassed hexside? Even though the example says you can't?

The example does not say you can't do that.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The Q&A, if I'm looking at the correct Q&A, seems to allow movement into the obstacle terrain being bypassed after expending a bypass MF but not into the adjacent "side" hex along the hexside which the bypass LOS is determined. That is to say given the OP's example, if moving from L2 to Bypass the building in P3 by moving along the L3-P3 hexside, it could enter the building in P3 but not enter L3 at all. Is this the crux of the question or am I getting a mixed up here?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The Q&A, if I'm looking at the correct Q&A, seems to allow movement into the obstacle terrain being bypassed after expending a bypass MF but not into the adjacent "side" hex along the hexside which the bypass LOS is determined.

It does allow such a move - when the Q&A says "T3-T4 hexside to the T3-T4-S4 vertex" - it assume the bypass takes place in hex T4 - not T3 - otherwise the MF calculations do not add up.

That is to say given the OP's example, if moving from L2 to Bypass the building in P3 by moving along the L3-P3 hexside, it could enter the building in P3 but not enter L3 at all. Is this the crux of the question or am I getting a mixed up here?

Not sure what you are referring to here, as L and P or not in the OP's illustration.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This Q&A seems to allow exiting "sideways".

A4.3 Can a unit bypass just a hex vertex, e.g., assuming walls are bocage, could a infantry unit in 3U4 bypass in hex T4 along the T4-T3-U4 vertex, and enter T3 at a cost of 3 MF, instead of crossing the T3-U4 hexside for a total cost of 4 MF?
A. No, a unit must bypass along an entire hexside; but in this situation, the unit could bypass along the T3-T4 hexside to the T3-T4-S4 vertex and then enter T3 at a cost of 3 MF. See the A4.31 Example. [Compil8]

However that seems contradicted by the A4.31 EX, which flatly states that the only hexes that can be exited into after bypass are the ones across the vertices. I would read the current rules as only allowing exit of the hex at the vertices, however "common sense" the other notion is.

While I do not think (as explained above) it contradicts the A4.31 Example - I did find another Q&A that contradicts this Q&A:

A4.31 Looking at the example for A4.132, consider a unit in 5G4. That unit moves into H4
using bypass along the H4/H3 hexside. For his next move can the unit:
a) Move into I4 spending 1MF (road movement
cost)?
A. No.
b) Move into I4 spending 2MF?
A. Yes.
c) Move into the woods in H4 spending 2MF?
A. Yes.
d) Move into H3 spending 1 MF?
A. No.

So perhaps we need a third Q&A.

 

[Eagle4ty]

It does allow such a move - when the Q&A says "T3-T4 hexside to the T3-T4-S4 vertex" - it assume the bypass takes place in hex T4 - not T3 - otherwise the MF calculations do not add up.



Not sure what you are referring to here, as L and P or not in the OP's illustration.

Ah yes, bad eyes E & F in the original OP I guess. (Old eyes w/out glasses & late at night here). Yes, the second example you posted was the Q&A I was referring to (i.e. the one mentioning the example of 4.132). And yes, I think a 3rd "clarification(?)" would be nice.

 

[zgrose]

I sent Perry an email yesterday.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I sent Perry an email yesterday.

Did you send it to Perry directly, or did you use the MMP Q&A email?

 

[zgrose]

Did you send it to Perry directly, or did you use the MMP Q&A email?

Vhee fallow propah channels!

I used the Q&A info@multimanpublishing.com address.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Vhee fallow propah channels!

I used the Q&A info@multimanpublishing.com address.

This is the one to use: asl_qa@multimanpublishing.com

 

[zgrose]

So true, I wonder what I clicked on for info@... Maybe I just started typing multiman into my email client. Resent.