Bypass fire options for AFV

[Oberst Hausser]

Since a AFV cannot over run in bypass the following sems to be the procedure:

IN bypass

1. If in motion = bypass freeze
2. if stopped NO bypass freeze

Case 1

AFPh attack (8 FP x 3)/2 (AFPh)= 12 FP AFPh/2 and motion ( x/2) are not combined
Enemy unit does lose ? status

Case 2

AFPh attack (8 FP x 3)/2 (AFPh)result/ 2 = 12 /2 ( against ? unit) = 6FP [AFPh/2 and motion ( x/2) are not combined]

Enemy unit does not lose ? status

TEM would apply in all cases.

I would like to make sure the status of a ? enemy unit when an AFV stops/not stops in its location.

Thank you

 

[bendizoid]

Bypass freeze means infantry can’t shoot out, so they are ‘sleazed’ if in motion or not.

I can’t tell you the fire power cause I don’t know what kind of tank you are talking about.

Yes, enemy loses ‘?’ if the AFV ends it’s move in the hex, silly rule.

Yes, TEM applies

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Pretty much any German Pz III or IV.

AFPh attack (8 FP x 3)/2 (AFPh)= 12 FP

I did try,

 

[klasmalmstrom]

AFPh/2 and motion ( x/2) are not combined

If a vehicle is e.g. shooting its MG in the AFPh and it is in Motion - the fire power of the MG are halved twice. So "AFPh/2 and motion ( x/2)" are combined...

 

[Oberst Hausser]

I was just responding to a comment that it was not.

But its also TPBF so its 8 x3= 24 / 2 =12 /2= 6

The main question for the above is for the AFV surviving CC. It seems pretty reasonable. * if the AFV is in motion (even if not the double would still apply), however the motion status would still apply ( for CC ).

Question:

What would be the earliest time after entering location would an AFV be "stationary"? (Its turn)

• if it bogs
• Never

Opponents turn? (i.e. subsequent)

The critical factor being when the CC becomes a "5".


Look forward to the answer to this )

 

[Doug Leslie]

I was just responding to a comment that it was not.

But its also TPBF so its 8 x3= 24 / 2 =12 /2= 6

The main question for the above is for the AFV surviving CC. It seems pretty reasonable. * if the AFV is in motion (even if not the double would still apply), however the motion status would still apply ( for CC ).

Question:

What would be the earliest time after entering location would an AFV be "stationary"? (Its turn)

• if it bogs
• Never

Opponents turn? (i.e. subsequent)

The critical factor being when the CC becomes a "5".


Look forward to the answer to this )

The vehicle loses the motion/non-stopped modifier CC modifier as soon as it is "stopped" ie it has spent an MP to stop or becomes bogged/immobilised. Note the distinction between the meaning of "non-stopped" and "moving".

 

[ScottRomanowski]

"stationary" is not an ASL term. You may want to read Jim Bishop's article at https://jekl.com/2021/09/09/stop-and-go-traffic-a-synopsis , which sumarizes Ole Boe’s Stop and Go Traffic article in the 1996 ASL Annual.

 

[Vinnie]

Don't forget that the BMG will not be able to fire in the hex, if it is in bypass.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

If a vehicle is e.g. shooting its MG in the AFPh and it is in Motion - the fire power of the MG are halved twice. So "AFPh/2 and motion ( x/2)" are combined...

Since this is the general area. When is an AFV "stopped" when it does NOT end in motion? (Having moved that MPh).

I would say not until the start of the opposing player turn unless the AFV bogs. In the latter case a mandatory stop.

 

[semenza]

It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately.

It is Non-Stopped when it spends a Start point. Immediately.



Seth

 

[ScottRomanowski]

Motion status only applies when it is not the vehicle's MPh.
The language used is tricky, and precise. Once you understand it, you'll see that it is spelled out in the rules, confusingly across many different rules. There's no need to guess with "I would say".

These are specific terms in ASL with specific definitions.

• Stopped
• Non-Stopped
• Motion
• Moving Vehicular Target

Example:

1. A vehicle begins its MPh not under a Motion counter. It is Stopped.
2. The vehicle spends 1 MP to start. It is now Non-Stopped. It is not a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J, C6.1).
3. The vehicle spends MP to change its VCA. It is still Non-Stopped and not a Moving Vehicular Target.
4. The vehicle enters a new hex (or uses VBM). It is Non-Stopped but is now a Moving Vehicular Target.
5. After some more movement and/or VCA changes, the vehicle spends a Stop MP. It is now Stopped, and is still a Moving Vehicular Target.

Example:

1. A vehicle begins its MPh under a Motion counter. It is Non-Stopped and in Motion (and a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J)).
2. As soon as the vehicle's MPh begins, the Motion counter is removed. This has no effect on the game.
3. After some movement and/or VCA changes, the vehicle spends a Stop MP. It is now Stopped, and is still a Moving Vehicular Target.

In the above examples, if instead the vehicle ended its MPh without spending a Stop MP, you would place a Motion counter on it. It is now in Motion and Non-Stopped.

A vehicle under a Motion counter is always Non-Stopped and a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J, C6.1).

During your Player Turn, your opponent's vehicles are either in Motion (under a Motion counter) or Stopped. Ditto for your vehicles in your opponent's Player Turn.

During your Player Turn, all your vehicles are either in Motion or Stopped except for a vehicle that you are currently moving in its MPh. That is either Stopped or Non-Stopped, and may or may not be a Moving Vehicular Target.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Don't forget that the BMG will not be able to fire in the hex, if it is in bypass.

I think I know the reason for that statement (out of CA??), but cannot find the rule that supports that...

Can you point the rule, please?

 

[Doug Leslie]

I think I know the reason for that statement (out of CA??), but cannot find the rule that supports that...

Can you point the rule, please?

The BMG can only fire at a target within its VCA whereas an obstacle being bypassed is in the side target facing.

 

[Vinnie]

Swe D2.321
As Doug says the bypassed hex is in the side covered arc. The illustration is useful.

I think I know the reason for that statement (out of CA??), but cannot find the rule that supports that...

Can you point the rule, please?

 

[Oberst Hausser]

It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately.

It is Non-Stopped when it spends a Start point. Immediately.



Seth

Complete nonsense. "It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately."

I love to hear about that.... I think we are talking about different things...

So a tank changes hex ( lets say 4) and stops ( temp end its movement) and targets (enemy) with no movement DRM...

That's what you said? Right.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Motion status only applies when it is not the vehicle's MPh.
The language used is tricky, and precise. Once you understand it, you'll see that it is spelled out in the rules, confusingly across many different rules. There's no need to guess with "I would say".

These are specific terms in ASL with specific definitions.

• Stopped
• Non-Stopped
• Motion
• Moving Vehicular Target

Example:

1. A vehicle begins its MPh not under a Motion counter. It is Stopped.
2. The vehicle spends 1 MP to start. It is now Non-Stopped. It is not a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J, C6.1).
3. The vehicle spends MP to change its VCA. It is still Non-Stopped and not a Moving Vehicular Target.
4. The vehicle enters a new hex (or uses VBM). It is Non-Stopped but is now a Moving Vehicular Target.
5. After some more movement and/or VCA changes, the vehicle spends a Stop MP. It is now Stopped, and is still a Moving Vehicular Target.

Example:

1. A vehicle begins its MPh under a Motion counter. It is Non-Stopped and in Motion (and a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J)).
2. As soon as the vehicle's MPh begins, the Motion counter is removed. This has no effect on the game.
3. After some movement and/or VCA changes, the vehicle spends a Stop MP. It is now Stopped, and is still a Moving Vehicular Target.

In the above examples, if instead the vehicle ended its MPh without spending a Stop MP, you would place a Motion counter on it. It is now in Motion and Non-Stopped.

A vehicle under a Motion counter is always Non-Stopped and a Moving Vehicular Target (Case J, C6.1).

During your Player Turn, your opponent's vehicles are either in Motion (under a Motion counter) or Stopped. Ditto for your vehicles in your opponent's Player Turn.

During your Player Turn, all your vehicles are either in Motion or Stopped except for a vehicle that you are currently moving in its MPh. That is either Stopped or Non-Stopped, and may or may not be a Moving Vehicular Target.

ALL I was after is when the AFV is stopped such that an enemy attack against it gets no detrimental DRM.
Likewise the AFV can attack with no detrimental DRM . Needles to say that will not be when a motion counter is on it at the end of the Mph. I presume in its DFPH of the (next) enemy turn it is stopped (not in motion) and at no other time..... The only question that remains is if the AFV bogs, which although the rules say it is stopped other rules say - because it moved- is still not really stopped.

PS: When the phone on aeroplane mode does this mean I control the plane?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

So a tank changes hex ( lets say 4) and stops ( temp end its movement) and targets (enemy) with no movement DRM...

In this situation Case B + C would apply (at a minimum, unless the MA shooting is a AAMG). If the vehicle is Non-Stopped then Case C4 would apply as well....

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The only question that remains is if the AFV bogs, which although the rules say it is stopped other rules say - because it moved- is still not really stopped.

If it Bogs the vehicle is Stopped. It would still be treated as a moving vehicular target though....

 

[DVexile]

Complete nonsense. "It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately."

I love to hear about that.... I think we are talking about different things...

So a tank changes hex ( lets say 4) and stops ( temp end its movement) and targets (enemy) with no movement DRM...

That's what you said? Right.

ALL I was after is when the AFV is stopped such that an enemy attack against it gets no detrimental DRM.
Likewise the AFV can attack with no detrimental DRM . Needles to say that will not be when a motion counter is on it at the end of the Mph. I presume in its DFPH of the (next) enemy turn it is stopped (not in motion) and at no other time..... The only question that remains is if the AFV bogs, which although the rules say it is stopped other rules say - because it moved- is still not really stopped.

PS: When the phone on aeroplane mode does this mean I control the plane?

If you are going to continue to post endless questions about things covered not only extensively in the RB, but also in numerous articles available online, you will help yourself immensely by at least taking the five minutes necessary to understand the very specific terminology used to define the various states of vehicle movement and motion. If you are too lazy to do this, which it appears you are, you have zero justification for jumping down the throats of those spending their time trying to help you.

What you called “complete nonsense” is 100% correct if you’d bother to understand what the terminology in the ASL rulebook is for vehicles. All you’ve demonstrated with your snark is that you don’t bother to take your time to help yourself by using the existing resources that have been pointed out to you multiple times in order to have the rudimentary knowledge to post a well phrased question as well as parse the correct answers you have been given.

Multiple patient people have been taking their time to assist you. The wonderful thing about the ASL community is that people will do this for others. Maybe show a little gratitude for that and start by putting in a bit of effort yourself so you can have a functional interaction with the people in the community trying to assist you.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Complete nonsense. "It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately."

I love to hear about that.... I think we are talking about different things...

So a tank changes hex ( lets say 4) and stops ( temp end its movement) and targets (enemy) with no movement DRM...

That's what you said? Right.

Complete nonsense. "It is Stopped when it spends a Stop point. Immediately."

I love to hear about that.... I think we are talking about different things...

So a tank changes hex ( lets say 4) and stops ( temp end its movement) and targets (enemy) with no movement DRM...

That's what you said? Right.

That isn’t what he said. As has been pointed out in previous posts, you need to understand the ASL concepts of “stopped”, ”non-stopped”, “moving“ and “motion”. This was comprehensively explained in Scott’s post, and I can only suggest that you read this carefully until you understand what he is saying. You should then realise that, far from being “complete nonsense”, Semenza’s post is quite correct.