Building-Road OVR Q

[G.L.O.A.T.]

What's the MP cost for a Fully Tracked/Halftrack/Wheeled AFV to conduct an OVR of an Emplaced Gun in hex (d1)G4 (a Building/Road hex) assuming it enters via road hexside (d1)F3/(d1)G4 at the road movement rate?

How do the following things alter the cost, if at all:

AFV enters across the same road hexside at Something other than the Road Movement rate?
PTO terrain (G.1) is in effect and (d1)G4 is a Hut?

 

[Vinnie]

The gun would be occupying the building unless specifically prevented from doing so so it would be cost to enter a building (or hut) plus a quarter.

 

[G.L.O.A.T.]

The gun would be occupying the building unless specifically prevented from doing so so it would be cost to enter a building (or hut) plus a quarter.

That would have to mean it is significantly different than other roads, e.g., if it were a Woods-Road hex.

"B13.32 A vehicular OVR attack in a woods-road hex (regardless of whether the overrunning vehicle enters at the road-movement rate) is penalized by the +1 TEM of the woods except vs vehicle(s) on the road."

So, I am reasonably sure it isn't as simple as that.

Probably is for Huts, because of G5.42 which says, "5.42 VBM & OVR: A hut, whether Collapsed or not, may be Bypassed in the same manner as a building, but must be entered in non-VBM fashion by any vehicle that wishes to OVR it/its-occupants."

Thus the added questions.

Might be, but I'm not ready to buy it yet. My best guess is that non-Hut cost would be road rate + 1/4 (and +2 TEM to OVR resolution), or pay normal building cost + 1/4 with attendant Bog DR.

Enough uncertainty from my perspective though, that I thought I'd try out thus smacky new forum.

 

[daveramsey]

The gun would be occupying the building unless specifically prevented from doing so so it would be cost to enter a building (or hut) plus a quarter.

Is the exact answer I was going to give, too.

I see that this isn't ideal, but we have no way of signifying or even choosing that the gun is not inside the building, so unless prohibited, we have to assume it is (this is the same as hex 5i9 on the official boards).

I would play that if the gun can't set up in a building, it's Road Rate + 1/4 and 2 TEM for emplacement, and for AT Guns, etc, that are able to set up in a building, it is building cost, bog check and +2 TEM (wooden building).

Cheers,

Dave

 

[G.L.O.A.T.]

Is the exact answer I was going to give, too.

I see that this isn't ideal, but we have no way of signifying or even choosing that the gun is not inside the building, so unless prohibited, we have to assume it is (this is the same as hex 5i9 on the official boards).

I would play that if the gun can't set up in a building, it's Road Rate + 1/4 and 2 TEM for emplacement, and for AT Guns, etc, that are able to set up in a building, it is building cost, bog check and +2 TEM (wooden building).

Cheers,

Dave

Two reasons I am not ready to accept this.

First, it is counter to other combination road terrain in the system (Huts are clearly identified as a difference in Ch. G).

Second, if the OVR requires actual entry of the building, the units in such a hex cannot be OVR by OT vehicles (not to mention HT or AC/Truck MP type AFV).

It may be that it is intended as such. If so, shrug. Ok.

 

[RobZagnut]

With new terrain you're going to come up with new rules. The players will discover them and ask questions. Do not rush to a decision and speak too soon (Roger Goodell). You need to study all the rules and the ramifications of how the new terrain is going to work within the framework of the existing rules. Once this is done then publish a ruling and also include it in Pack #2.

 

[Vinnie]

I do not think a gun that is not permitted to set up in a building could set up in a building/road hex. There is only one location at ground level and that is a building location.
You may bypass it using the special rule.

 

[Vinnie]

I believe this view is supported by official rules

5.5 BUILDING-ROAD: Hexes PBW18 and PBX18 are unique in that each contains a building with a road running through the hex.11 For all purposes, the building is treated as a normal single-story house (B23.21) and the road is treated as a Narrow Street (4.1) that runs along hexsides X18-X19 and W18-W19 [EXC: the TCA change restrictions of 4.121-122 do not apply; instead, a vehicle using VBM along these Narrow Street hexsides may never have its own hex within its TCA. LOS to unit, on the road is always traced to its center dot for as per A4.132), not to its vertex, although the building depiction can block such LOS. Vehicles move directly from hexside X18-X19 to hex PBY18 (and vice versa) and from hexside X18-X19 to hexside W18-W19 (and vice versa)].

Its a special form of narrow street. To overrun, you're going to have to crash into the building.

 

[von Marwitz]

What Vinnie says makes sense to me.

von Marwitz

 

[G.L.O.A.T.]

I believe this view is supported by official rules

5.5 BUILDING-ROAD: Hexes PBW18 and PBX18 are unique in that each contains a building with a road running through the hex.11 For all purposes, the building is treated as a normal single-story house (B23.21) and the road is treated as a Narrow Street (4.1) that runs along hexsides X18-X19 and W18-W19 [EXC: the TCA change restrictions of 4.121-122 do not apply; instead, a vehicle using VBM along these Narrow Street hexsides may never have its own hex within its TCA. LOS to unit, on the road is always traced to its center dot for as per A4.132), not to its vertex, although the building depiction can block such LOS. Vehicles move directly from hexside X18-X19 to hex PBY18 (and vice versa) and from hexside X18-X19 to hexside W18-W19 (and vice versa)].

Its a special form of narrow street. To overrun, you're going to have to crash into the building.

You're prob right Vinnie. PB5.# (5.5 in this specific case) was one of the first places I looked. The reason I asked my Q was mainly due to the things that seem intentionally omitted from the entry. Admittedly, it might seem a fine point (and might have been wrapped up in copyright world). I specifically asked a question involving a Gun and an OVR to narrow the scope some.

Lesson learned, drive in and shoot 'em. We don need no stinkin' OVR.

Russ

 

[G.L.O.A.T.]

Heh, OK. So there appears to have been a small extra spot on my copy of the Building/Road hex. I was scratching my head and thinking why is that a "comma" if that's what ... Wait. scritch scritch. It's NOT a comma.

Originally it looked like this (on mine):
"Hex (d)G4 is an example of a building-road hex. All rules found in A4.132 are applicable to this hex. In addition, the road is treated as a Narrow Street (B31.1), For the purposes of Street Fighting, vehicles are ... "

What it ACTUALLY says:
""Hex (d)G4 is an example of a building-road hex. All rules found in A4.132 are applicable to this hex. In addition, the road is treated as a Narrow Street (B31.1). For the purposes of Street Fighting, vehicles are ... "

Hehe. Ok. I'm with you.

 

[von Marwitz]

Lesson learned, drive in and shoot 'em. We don need no stinkin' OVR.

Russ

Yeah! And while you are at it, walk that road to the end. Make sure to roll a cdr 1 to rubble that wooden single-hex multi-level building to kill the suckers in the upper levels. Drop the falling rubble to kill every enemy looking for trouble in an ADJACENT hex. Use the required Bog-Check DR caused by the falling rubble to roll a cdr 6, fall into the cellar, survive with the crew of your CT tank to take control of the hex/rubble/whatever is left standing or otherwise to win the scenario of the ASLOK final. Then its time to notify your opponent: "Hasta la vista, baby. I'll be back!", stand up and walk away and into the history of ASL forever - to grab a beer. :ar15:


Though I am not sure if falling into the cellar might only be applicable to the first Bog-Check caused by entry of the building...

von Marwitz

 

[G.L.O.A.T.]

Yeah! And while you are at it, walk that road to the end. Make sure to roll a cdr 1 to rubble that wooden single-hex multi-level building to kill the suckers in the upper levels. Drop the falling rubble to kill every enemy looking for trouble in an ADJACENT hex. Use the required Bog-Check DR caused by the falling rubble to roll a cdr 6, fall into the cellar, survive with the crew of your CT tank to take control of the hex/rubble/whatever is left standing or otherwise to win the scenario of the ASLOK final. Then its time to notify your opponent: "Hasta la vista, baby. I'll be back!", stand up and walk away and into the history of ASL forever - to grab a beer. :ar15:


Though I am not sure if falling into the cellar might only be applicable to the first Bog-Check caused by entry of the building...

von Marwitz

Walk-off Victory!

Maybe hobble-off ... But you get the point!