BtB2 and OC in da house!

[scrub]

Just got BtB2 and Operation Cobra. Pics uploading to BGG and some already on my blog:

http://triplepbf.blogspot.com/2009/05/bounding-fire-stuff.html

Awesome! :devious:

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Got mine yesterday.

 

[Markdv5208]

Pikers all of you!

I got mine last week Monday. Still haven't finished drooling over the stuff yet....

Mark DV
Ada, MI

 

[samtyson]

Pikers all of you!

I got mine last week Monday. Still haven't finished drooling over the stuff yet....

Mark DV
Ada, MI

Where are all the the AARs? Stop drooling and get to playing!

Sam

 

[sgt. Essig]

Arrived in Italy!!!

great job!!

THS

Mario

 

[fwheel73]

Pikers all of you!

I got mine last week Monday. Still haven't finished drooling over the stuff yet....

Mark DV
Ada, MI

Where are all the the AARs? Stop drooling and get to playing!

Sam

Sam.... Chas,

In the next release, BFP 3, I think you will want to enclose a napkin or tissue to catch the droolin' stuff and protect the vital boards and scenarios.

Best regards,:salute:
John

 

[n3ddy]

I'd just like to say a huge thank you to Sam for sorting out a shipping glitch so efficiently, politely and professionally. It's the kind of service that reaffirms, in my mind at any rate, the confidence I have developed in BFP since I came back to the hobby. :thumup:

 

[Richard Weiley]

How many of the scenarios in the Operation Cobra pack are playable with the original Beyond the Beachhead pack?

 

[Markdv5208]

Sam.... Chas,

In the next release, BFP 3, I think you will want to enclose a napkin or tissue to catch the droolin' stuff and protect the vital boards and scenarios.

Best regards,:salute:
John

I'm not sure that a napkin would be enough in my case. Maybe a Zanax or some kind of pill to otherwise relieve the euphoria that comes with a lot A LOT of ASL goodness.

Mark DV
Ada, MI

 

[Markdv5208]

How many of the scenarios in the Operation Cobra pack are playable with the original Beyond the Beachhead pack?

I believe all of them.

But now you're going to make me recon that to make sure of my asseriont.

I WILL NOTE...that if you have Beyond the Beachhead, the original 8 are reprinted and THEN they added 8 more to Beyond the Beachhead.

ALSO, in the COBRA there's a really good article about bocage that is truly worthy of your time reading wise, IMHO.

Mark DV
Ada, MI

 

[Paul M. Weir]

How many of the scenarios in the Operation Cobra pack are playable with the original Beyond the Beachhead pack?

Just checking scenarios, (HoB III = BFP C, HoB IV = BFP D, HoB Overlay V1, H1 = BFP V1, H1), Overlay BFP 6a comes with BFP 2 "Operation Cobra")

BFP-14: Yes (Bd 17 & BFP D)
BFP-15: No (Bd 42, BFP D & E)
BFP-16: Yes (Bd BFP D)
BFP-17: Yes (Bd 18 & BFP D)
BFP-18: No (Bd 24 & BFP E)
BFP-19: Yes (Bd BFP C & D)
BFP-20: No (Bd 6 & BFP E + Overlay BFP 6a)
BFP-21: No (Bd 17, BFP C & E)
BFP-22: Yes (Bd 6 + Overlay BFP 6a)
BFP-23: Yes (Bd 46 & BFP C)
BFP-24: No (Bd BFP C,D & E)
BFP-25: No (Bd BFP C & E)

So 6 out of 12 of the "Operation Cobra" are playable with just "Operation Cobra" and HoB's BtB (1).
I have not included any standard overlays in the above list.

I, personally, would strongly advise getting BFP's BtB 2 (along with BFP2 "Operation Cobra") for the following reasons:
1. Original maps redone in ASLSK style, this is what all future maps will be like.
2. Errata on original scenarios now fixed.
3. 2 new maps, 3 new overlays and 8 new scenarios.
4. The large overlays now fold to fit within a standard ASL box.
Even though I already had HoB's BtB (1) I got the BFP BtB 2 and BFP 2 "Operation Cobra" and delighted.

 

[n3ddy]

Just received my OC today - BtB2 on its way - and am BLOWN AWAY! Those counters are the best I've ever seen by a TPP, and rival MMP for quality. I'm sold on BFP!

 

[wrongway149]

Just received my OC today - BtB2 on its way - and am BLOWN AWAY! Those counters are the best I've ever seen by a TPP, and rival MMP for quality. I'm sold on BFP!

So how many OC scenarios can one play WITHOUT BtB?

Can't say I'd really like to buy all them packs, but than again, I'm only likely to play these at a tourney anyway.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

So how many OC scenarios can one play WITHOUT BtB?

0. If you look at my list all of them require at least BtB or BtB 2. To play all scenarios you require BtB 2.

 

[bprobst]

Just got my copies of BtB2 and BFP2. Nice looking stuff.

I have quibbles with some of the rules/SSR (don't I always? The reality is most 3rd-party products rarely get everything 100% right -- heck, MMP doesn't always get it 100% right!) but those quibbles are generally minor and not deal-breakers in any way.

I don't really see the point in the new counters (other than the Püppchen, of course, where the counters are necessary if you're going to add the new weapon type) but they're nicely done -- much better than the counters previously produced by HoB. (The wrecked wreck depictions are a nice touch.)

Thunderbolt rules? Ho-hum. I could have sworn that ASL was a game about combat on the ground, and the interaction of aircraft should be (and is) efficiently abstracted in the existing Chapter E rules. Two pages of additional rules to learn, and will the net effect be in any way superior to the generic FB rules that we already have? I greatly doubt it.

[My personal philosophy is that if you are designing a new ASL expansion and you find that you "need" to write a page or two of new rules (i.e., more than a longish SSR), or "need" to design new terrain types, or especially if you "need" to replace existing rules because they don't fit your personal vision of what ASL "should" be -- then you have probably already lost your way; you should go back and make the existing rules work for you. Your product will be better for it.

[There are always EXC of course ... particularly in the case of designing a CG, where the circumstances of the battle being depicted might need more than just a couple of simple SSR (RB being the prime example) -- and I give a CG a lot of leeway for this sort of thing. But a bunch of miscellaneous scenarios using geomorphic boards -- even if they have a unifying "theme" or "setting" -- are IMO very rarely improved by the addition of more rules than will comfortably fit as an SSR.]

YMMV, obviously.

But I have digressed from my major point: these products look pretty good, and I am glad to have purchased them.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Sorry Bruce, I have to disagree with you on the Thunderbolts. I agree that ASL is primarily about ground combat. There are only a small number of ways that aircraft attacked ground targets: guns, bombs and rockets. The Thunderbolts add an (optional) sightly more detailed (in terms of munitions) abstraction to the basic FB rules. The Thunderbolt rules use the existing rules and concepts and build a little on them. The possible variations to the FB air to ground are: 1. Dive Bombers * (Germany, USMC/USN), Rockets (US, British, Soviets), Napalm * (US, British, Chinese), cluster (AT & HE) bombs (Germany, Soviets) and larger cannon (Germany, British, Soviet). * = already in core rules. OtO covered the Soviet Il-2 variants and German Ju87G (37mm) and Soviet AT cluster bombs, now all that is required are the German AT cluster bombs, British Hurricane IID/IVD (40mm), Typhoon (rockets) and maybe the US P-39 (37mm). All such variations to the FB rules are minor, add a little tasty chrome and are no more unreasonable than say the SturmTiger or mSPW S307(f) multi-mortar rules. The bulk of the Thunderbolt variant rules are in specifying which parts of the chapter E rules apply in each rocket attack (point vs strafe, ATT vs VTT, etc). Overall, little new and only concerned with what is delivered to the ground.

The Cullen and FT variants are useful and well done. The combination of "light bocage" rules and separate bocage and hedge artwork does allow a designer to reflect any natural terrain variation that he/she feels are important to a battle, without major rule changes and by only SSR.

All above is my opinion only.

 

[bprobst]

All such variations to the FB rules are minor, add a little tasty chrome

We're just airing different opinions here, but believe me that two pages of variant rules just so you can say "my plane blew up the tank with rockets" instead of "my plane blew up the tank with a bomb" goes way, way beyond "minor tasty chrome". Add in more pages of rules for Sturmoviks, and you want still more for other stuff? Fine and dandy for an aircraft game; incredible overkill (pun not intended) for a ground combat game. All I want to know is "did the plane kill the enemy tank, or not?". We already know that everything in ASL is abstract and works just fine like that; attempting to eliminate the abstractions makes for a different game that some people might like better, but I'm not one of them.

(Tanks with "chrome" rules are OK, generally; it's part of what the game is about. ASL is not about infantry identifying what calibre of rockets those planes are dropping on their heads.)

However, nobody ever agrees with me on these sort of things; I'm pretty much used to being the lone, correct voice in the wilderness.

 

[swoyak]

If Bruce is talking in the woods and no one is there to hear him, is he still making sound? :devious:

 

[iamspamus]

If Bruce is talking in the woods and no one is there to hear him, is he still making sound? :devious:

Oh, he's still makin' a sound... :laugh:

 

[Chas]

Wasnt it proven a while back that Bruce and Mark were not the same people???

Seriously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And thank you for the good comments on the product. Hard for me to go against the popularity of OtO, and now apparently our Normandy stuff.
Pretty much all of the aircraft Paul mentioned, plus others, are already developed in other projects we are working on. Cobra was a smaller version of what B and J will be. We have a good number of these themes in the works with aircraft, rare vehicles, etc.
This may disappoint you Bruce, but I am sure the other 99% of our customers will be very pleased


Chas