broken observer and Spotting Round

[Michael R]

I used the OBA flowchart to try to reason this out, and I am looping. :crosseye:

The observer is broken, so he cannot attempt radio contact. I believe that this is not voluntary loss of contact. The flowchart states that the SR stays on board in that situation. If nothing changes (i.e., the leader does not rally and no one else gets the radio), it seems like the SR can remain on board forever.

Agree?

 

[Darren Kovacs]

Sounds correct to me as long as the observer has LOS to the SR.

Darren

 

[jrv]

I used the OBA flowchart to try to reason this out, and I am looping. :crosseye:

The observer is broken, so he cannot attempt radio contact. I believe that this is not voluntary loss of contact. The flowchart states that the SR stays on board in that situation. If nothing changes (i.e., the leader does not rally and no one else gets the radio), it seems like the SR can remain on board forever.

Agree?

Consider the situation where, instead of the Observer breaking, the radio malfunctions and x's out. ;-)

JR

 

[Vinnie]

Does a broken unit have the same los as a good order one?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Does a broken unit have the same los as a good order one?

I don't see why it wouldn't.

 

[Wayne]

I used the OBA flowchart to try to reason this out, and I am looping. :crosseye:

The OBA Flowchart is 99-pct "there," but misses some peripheral bits (see below).

The observer is broken, so he cannot attempt radio contact. I believe that this is not voluntary loss of contact.

How he breaks, matters.

If he Voluntarily Broke at the Start of his side's RtPh, he'll lose Contact & Access and you'll remove any SR/FFE of his.

If he Broke most any other way, you'll simply flip his Contact chit to its No Contact side.

The flowchart states that the SR stays on board in that situation. If nothing changes (i.e., the leader does not rally and no one else gets the radio), it seems like the SR can remain on board forever.

Agree?

SR come off when you get a red oval on the OBA flowchart.

Because the OBA flowchart misses a few tricks, I made the supplement, below.

View attachment 44972

99-pct of the time, you'll be sent, by this supplement, directly to the OBA flowchart (the very-heavy black path, on the supplement). The rest of the time, this supplement should speed your game.

Here it is again, in (less aesthetic) text, with full rules references:

ASL Pre-OBA-Flowchart Flowchart Hadady 2014.03.01 v1.2

In any phase:
Did Observer just lose Good Order? {Fixes an OBA Flowchart (radio Contact box) omission}
Y: Is that Observer in Contact?

Y: Not anymore: flip Battery X Contact to Battery X No Contact, immediately (C1.61).
​

End of RPh:
Any FFE:C on board? {Fixes an ASOP omission}
Y: Battery Access is now lost (C1.21). Is Observer for that FFE:C in Contact?

Y: FFE:C remains in place.
N: Remove FFE:C (C1.22).
​

Start of Observer's PFPh or DFPh:
Is Observer in Good Order? {Fixes some OBA Flowchart and ASOP omissions}
Y: Does Observer Voluntarily lose Contact?

Y: Lose Access and remove that Observer's SR/FFE counters, if any (C1.22).
N: Goto OBA-Flowchart.
​

N: Does that Observer have an FFE:C on board?

Y: Battery Access (prev. lost) not regained; mission expires and FFE:C is removed (C1.34).
​

RtPh:
Does the Observer Voluntarily rout? {Fixes an ASOP omission}
Y: Was that Observer in Contact?

Y: Lose Access and remove that Observer's SR/FFE counters, if any (C1.22; C1.6).
​

 

[von Marwitz]

Excellent post by Wayne! Somebody please rep the man for me.

von Marwitz

 

[Michael R]

I already did.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If he Voluntarily Broke at the Start of his side's RtPh, he'll lose Contact & Access and you'll remove any SR/FFE of his.

What rules is this in ?

 

[Wayne]

Deleted.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

C1.22, five lines up from bottom of that rules case.

Yes, but that says "voluntary rout" - not "voluntary breaks"

 

[Wayne]

Yes, but that says "voluntary rout" - not "voluntary breaks"

Thank you for the catch, Klas. I have updated my prior post and chart, accordingly.

 

[mgmasl]

Yes, but that says "voluntary rout" - not "voluntary breaks"

Ie using a broken unit to move with the unbroken leader...

 

[Wayne]

Ie using a broken unit to move with the unbroken leader...

Exactly. A10.711.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Ie using a broken unit to move with the unbroken leader...

Yes, per A10.771.

C1.22 says:
"...Voluntary loss of Contact (i.e., failure to roll for Contact/Maintenance or voluntary rout; 1.6) causes the immediate loss of Access and Cancellation of the Fire Mission (if any). However, failing to roll for Contact/Maintenance is considered voluntary loss of Contact only if the Observer has no LOS to the SR’s/FFE’s Blast Height; 1.32)."

I've always interpreted the red text as only applying if one can actually make such a DR - i.e., the Observer is unbroken and the Radio/Field-Phone is not malfunctioned. I.e, if a broken Observer (or one with a malfunctioned Radio) has no LOS to the Blast Height, isn't an issue - but perhaps that is not the correct interpretation of the intention?

 

[Wayne]

Yes, per A10.771.

C1.22 says:
"...Voluntary loss of Contact (i.e., failure to roll for Contact/Maintenance or voluntary rout; 1.6) causes the immediate loss of Access and Cancellation of the Fire Mission (if any). However, failing to roll for Contact/Maintenance is considered voluntary loss of Contact only if the Observer has no LOS to the SR’s/FFE’s Blast Height; 1.32)."

I've always interpreted the red text as only applying if one can actually make such a DR

Me too. I've always inferred failing to, above, as forgoing a, intended. I'm not sure that I've seen it played otherwise.

- i.e., the Observer is unbroken and the Radio/Field-Phone is not malfunctioned. I.e, if a broken Observer (or one with a malfunctioned Radio) has no LOS to the Blast Height, isn't an issue - but perhaps that is not the correct interpretation of the intention?

 

[Rock SgtDan]

Wayne, in your post #6 should you not also have fixed this statement (it seems you changed Broke to Rout in the chart only)
>
>If he Voluntarily Broke at the Start of his side's RtPh, he'll lose Contact & Access and you'll remove any SR/FFE of his.
>

 

[Rock SgtDan]

Thanks for the chart. FYI re printing it out:
1) the green background is way too dark
2) red box just has a few black marks in it, so probably too dark
3) orange boxes, very hard to read the black text. Also is salmon, which might be me low on a color of toner.

4) The "Did Observer just..." box, is quite legible; but the text in the other white boxes is thin, not enough contrast, as if you used a different font style with a thinner line.

I think its generally difficult to print the "full background color" style of an offset printed color document. Might be better off just doing a wide colored border.

 

[Carln0130]

I used the OBA flowchart to try to reason this out, and I am looping. :crosseye:

The observer is broken, so he cannot attempt radio contact. I believe that this is not voluntary loss of contact. The flowchart states that the SR stays on board in that situation. If nothing changes (i.e., the leader does not rally and no one else gets the radio), it seems like the SR can remain on board forever.

Agree?

Yup, that is my understanding as well.

 

[Trezza]

I play it the same way....SR stays on board.....the broken part of the rule is when you
have mixed nationalities. in FB CG 3, I once had Hungarian OBA with a 6+1 on the radio.

Had the SR down but the 6+1 disrupted. Sent a German 8-1 to get the radio from him
and he was allowed to dial up the radio and blow the OBA into a FFE 1.

That is a huge stretch to me but was allowed according to Klas and/or Perry.