British Carrier Note Q

Binchois

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British MAVN Note Q applies to many of the nation's Carriers:

Q. The ATR has a maximum To Hit range of 12 hexes (as signified by "[12]TH" on the counter) and may be Scrounged/Removed. If optional, it is always available and has a 1.1 RF. If listed as MA, it has a "1" Multiple ROF. If it is a TATR, it fires through the TCA in the normal manner. If it is a SA BATR, it may fire while the vehicle is BU and/or HD across its VCA - as signified on the counter by "BU/HD FP ok" (or "HD FP ok" for the Carrier, MMG A, which cannot be BU). The MA BATR of the 1P Carrier Mk IIB may fire while the vehicle is BU, as signified by "BU FP ok" on the counter.​
My main question regards the firing of bow-mounted weapons while HD. Note Q appears to be entirely about Carrier ATRs, but the inclusion of the Carrier MMG A is confusing. Most Carriers using Note Q do not, in fact, have an ATR, and neither the Carrier MMG A nor B has one (despite using Note Q). Is this note allowing even the BMG of Carrier MMG A to fire while HD? The counter does not, in fact, include the text "HD FP ok" as illustrated in Chapter H despite the note seeming to say that it does (or is there an ATR variant that I haven't noticed before)!

In short, does a Carrier's counter need "BU/HD FP ok" or "HD FP ok" on back to be allowed to fire while HD, or does Case Q grant that ability to all Carriers to which it applies? If it cannot, why does the Carrier MMG A & B note carry Note Q?

Addendum: Aha! Problem solved! There is a variant of the Carrier MMG A that possesses a BATR. So I guess Note Q simply has limited applicability despite being assigned to a great variety of Carrier types. Sorry to bother everyone...Cheers!🍻
 
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Eagle4ty

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British MAVN Note Q applies to many of the nation's Carriers:

Q. The ATR has a maximum To Hit range of 12 hexes (as signified by "[12]TH" on the counter) and may be Scrounged/Removed. If optional, it is always available and has a 1.1 RF. If listed as MA, it has a "1" Multiple ROF. If it is a TATR, it fires through the TCA in the normal manner. If it is a SA BATR, it may fire while the vehicle is BU and/or HD across its VCA - as signified on the counter by "BU/HD FP ok" (or "HD FP ok" for the Carrier, MMG A, which cannot be BU). The MA BATR of the 1P Carrier Mk IIB may fire while the vehicle is BU, as signified by "BU FP ok" on the counter.​
My main question regards the firing of bow-mounted weapons while HD. Note Q appears to be entirely about Carrier ATRs, but the inclusion of the Carrier MMG A is confusing. Most Carriers using Note Q do not, in fact, have an ATR, and neither the Carrier MMG A nor B has one (despite using Note Q). Is this note allowing even the BMG of Carrier MMG A to fire while HD? The counter does not, in fact, include the text "HD FP ok" as illustrated in Chapter H despite the note seeming to say that it does (or is there an ATR variant that I haven't noticed before)!

In short, does a Carrier's counter need "BU/HD FP ok" or "HD FP ok" on back to be allowed to fire while HD, or does Case Q grant that ability to all Carriers to which it applies? If it cannot, why does the Carrier MMG A & B note carry Note Q?

Addendum: Aha! Problem solved! There is a variant of the Carrier MMG A that possesses a BATR. So I guess Note Q simply has limited applicability despite being assigned to a great variety of Carrier types. Sorry to bother everyone...Cheers!🍻
:p
 

bprobst

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Note Q is the Carrier note. The entire section of Chapter D that talks about "Carriers" should really be described as "the rules for vehicles that British MAVN Q applies to". There are "Carrier-like" vehicles that do not have Note Q assigned to them -- those vehicles are not Carriers (in a rules sense) even if they were historically called "Carriers".
 

Binchois

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Note Q is the Carrier note. The entire section of Chapter D that talks about "Carriers" should really be described as "the rules for vehicles that British MAVN Q applies to". There are "Carrier-like" vehicles that do not have Note Q assigned to them -- those vehicles are not Carriers (in a rules sense) even if they were historically called "Carriers".
Note Q is exactly and entirely as I cited it above. It is merely another British Multi-Applicable Vehicle Note which happens to apply to some Carriers and, yes, Carrier-like (in a rules sense) vehicles. But it is not the Carrier note. This would, in fact, be subsection D6.8-.84.

And you're right that Chapter D6.8-.84 operates more like a British MAVN, but I see the reasoning for including it alongside the Halftrack rules. Regardless, the correct pointer to this subsection isn't MAVN Q. The note that makes clear when a Carrier is actually a Carrier is British MAVN U (plus V, denoting somewhat "partial" Carriers):

U. See D6.8-.84 for the basic rules pertaining to Carriers...​
V. Of the special rules for Carriers, only D6.82-.83 and H1.43 apply to IP Carriers (and their Inherent HS/crew); for all other purposes, they are considered non-Carrier wheeled OT AFV...​
For example: the Carrier, 3-in MTR does not get MAVN Q. It does, however, use MAVN U so it is, a Carrier.
 

bprobst

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You're correct, I completely misremembered which Note was which. I should have said ""the rules for vehicles that British MAVN U applies to". Stupid middle-aged brain.

But it is not theCarrier note. This would, in fact, be subsection D6.8-.84.
No, not really. That section of the rules is what you use when you have a vehicle for which British MAVN U is applicable (which, er, is what I said the first time, factoring in the correct reference). And as you note, kinda-sorta MAVN V, but not really -- Note V is actually saying "yes, they're called Carriers, they have a couple of Carrier-like qualities, but they absolutely are not Carriers".

For every other vehicle type (as best as I can recall) it's the other way around (as you would expect). The rules define what the various vehicle types can do (how they fight, how they move, how you get personnel in or out of them, etc. -- in general terms I mean; obviously individual vehicles can get specific variations listed in their applicable Notes). To put it another way, the Notes describe the exceptions to the general rules. This is because every other type of vehicle gets its own "Type" designation in the Chapter H listings (Light Tank, Armoured Personnel Carrier, Self-Propelled Artillery, etc.) but the Carrier "Type" (APC) is not in itself different enough from other APCs -- and the full raft of Carrier exceptions is a bit too much to put entirely into the vehicle Notes. I don't object to this, I just find it interesting that the rules are organised this way.

On reflection, I suppose Landing Craft are the same -- the rules for same are described outside of the Vehicle Notes (they don't even get their own "Type", other than their catch-all description).
 

von Marwitz

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Stupid middle-aged brain.
Bruce, please forgive this little pun - I just had to:

As your beard testifies, you might not be middle-aged but ancient like Gandalf - though not always quite as enchanting...

;)

Cheers,
von Marwitz
 
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