Both side mmc broken in melee, how does that work?

Chris NL

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Hello All,

Both side mmc are broken in melee, how does that work?
do both side need to withdrawl in CC-Phase, are DR needed to do that.
i am trying to understand that mechanism?

Thx Chris
 

Bill Kohler

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And what of Disrupted units in this case?

A11.16: ... Any non-guard broken unit unable to withdraw from Melee is eliminated at the end of that CCPh for Failure to Rout.

A19.12: ... Disrupted units in Melee may not Withdraw; unless captured, they will be eliminated at the end of the CCPh if still in Melee.


Since the other side will have withdrawn, I suspect the Disrupted units will remain but not be eliminated.
 
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JimWhite

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Assume there is only one (non-disrupted/non-guard) broken Infantry unit from each side in Melee.

Per ASOP 8.15B both sides must declare their intention to withdraw from Melee.

So now when the Attacker executes its withdrawal...technically it is no longer a Melee. Does the Defending unit still have to withdrawal?

I assume it is simultaneous and it would have to withdraw...just curious though.
 

Bill Kohler

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Per ASOP 8.15B both sides must declare their intention to withdraw from Melee.

So now when the Attacker executes its withdrawal...technically it is no longer a Melee. Does the Defending unit still have to withdrawal?
I think the opposite: technically the Defender still is in Melee seeing as the Withdrawal of the Attacker hasn't happened yet: that doesn't happen until 8.24B.
 

clubby

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Assume there is only one (non-disrupted/non-guard) broken Infantry unit from each side in Melee.

Per ASOP 8.15B both sides must declare their intention to withdraw from Melee.

So now when the Attacker executes its withdrawal...technically it is no longer a Melee. Does the Defending unit still have to withdrawal?

I assume it is simultaneous and it would have to withdraw...just curious though.
I believe all of the withdrawing happens at once. Since they were required to withdraw the order only matters for who goes first.
 

JimWhite

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I think the opposite: technically the Defender still is in Melee seeing as the Withdrawal of the Attacker hasn't happened yet: that doesn't happen until 8.24B.
To clarify...I meant that in 8.15B that BOTH sides have already declared they were withdrawing from the Melee.

Then in 8.24B once the Attacker actually leaves the hex technically the Defender is no longer in Melee...but since they have already declared their intent to withdraw and CC is sequential then actually they are withdrawing at the same time.

At least I believed that is the intent...I was just curious about the thoughts of others.

Thanks.
 
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clubby

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To clarify...I meant that in 8.15B that BOTH sides have already declared they were withdrawing from the Melee.

Then in 8.24B once the Attacker actually leaves the hex the technically the Defender is no longer in Melee...but since they have already declared their intent to withdraw and CC is sequential then actually they are withdrawing at the same time.

At least I believed that is the intent...I was just curious about the thoughts of others.

Thanks.
I think you've got it Jim. The only way it might matter is the second unit may not be able to legally withdraw and the question is are they dead or can they stay? My guess is dead.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I think you've got it Jim. The only way it might matter is the second unit may not be able to legally withdraw and the question is are they dead or can they stay? My guess is dead.
A11.16:
"...Any non-guard broken unit unable to withdraw from Melee is eliminated at the end of that CCPh for Failure to Rout. ..."
 
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