Borgward B IV Panzerjäger HoB features

chef-62

xxxxxxxx
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
86
Reaction score
4
Location
Saronno
Country
llItaly
I shold like to recreate the Borgward B IV Panzerjäger; counters from the HoB "Berlin Red Vengeance" module and I look for the characteristics of the vehicle.
Can someone help me?
From real images, found on the internet, is a "fully tracked", but I can not understand the size Target (normal, small or very small) and if it‘s Low, Normal or High ground pressure.
I thank you in advance for your cooperation.
 

dlazov

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
7,991
Reaction score
1,377
Location
Toledo, Ohio
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
I think CH may have created some of these for one of there Berlin HASL modules. I’d have to double check.
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
I think CH may have created some of these for one of there Berlin HASL modules. I’d have to double check.
They did, it is all their editions of Berlin modules as a counter.

IIRC, a fair number of these were actually Panzerbeute, conversions of British Mk II Carriers abandoned in the BEF retreat in 1940.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
3,732
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
There might have been some British carriers in Berlin, but the only photos that I remember were of the Borgward IV. They had 6 PSK that could be ripple fired. I believe the tactic was to dart out of cover, ripple fire, dodge back and reload. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgward_IV In ASL terms a SPA but with a 6 shot PSK rather than a gun.

From what I have read the Universal Carriers captured in France were the mainly if not exclusively Mk I, along with the slightly different Bren and Scout Carriers. Mk IIs could have been captured in NA as well as Italy and of course some captured from the Soviets. All those Universal Mk I & II, Scout and Bren are well covered by ASL's differently armed carriers. The Universal Carrier conversion had 3 PSK strapped over the engine deck, wooden crates of PSK rounds at the rear, a LMG and 6 PF as standard.

I'm not clear what the tactics. Given that a carrier held only 4 (or 6 at a very, very tight squeeze) that would mean a driver and the other 3 armed with a PSK each. I suppose the PSK could be fired while strapped down on the engine deck, but except for an emergency I would regard that as a hairy experience and not one I would recommend.

So in ASL terms it's just a carrier that comes with (3?) PSK rather than a PIAT. If fired from a vehicle then it would suffer Backblast like if fired from a building. In reality a good, experienced crew would probably manage it safely, but ... and we don't want to encourage that sort of thing, anyway.
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
There might have been some British carriers in Berlin, but the only photos that I remember were of the Borgward IV. They had 6 PSK that could be ripple fired. I believe the tactic was to dart out of cover, ripple fire, dodge back and reload. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgward_IV In ASL terms a SPA but with a 6 shot PSK rather than a gun.

From what I have read the Universal Carriers captured in France were the mainly if not exclusively Mk I, along with the slightly different Bren and Scout Carriers. Mk IIs could have been captured in NA as well as Italy and of course some captured from the Soviets. All those Universal Mk I & II, Scout and Bren are well covered by ASL's differently armed carriers. The Universal Carrier conversion had 3 PSK strapped over the engine deck, wooden crates of PSK rounds at the rear, a LMG and 6 PF as standard.

I'm not clear what the tactics. Given that a carrier held only 4 (or 6 at a very, very tight squeeze) that would mean a driver and the other 3 armed with a PSK each. I suppose the PSK could be fired while strapped down on the engine deck, but except for an emergency I would regard that as a hairy experience and not one I would recommend.

So in ASL terms it's just a carrier that comes with (3?) PSK rather than a PIAT. If fired from a vehicle then it would suffer Backblast like if fired from a building. In reality a good, experienced crew would probably manage it safely, but ... and we don't want to encourage that sort of thing, anyway.
1535244539006.png

Yep here's the Carrier 3 tube version in German service.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
3,732
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
Not being a British AFV expert I'm a bit hazy about the difference between an Universal Mk I and a II. The main one I believe was the addition of the towing hitch to the Mk II. The above one I believe to be a Mk I which is not only missing the hitch but has 2 mounting foot steps at the rear which in the Mk II were moved to the rear of the sides.

EDIT: I used to think it was practical to fire from the vehicle, but further reading hinted that was not the norm. It won't be the last time I get something wrong :oops:!

The Borgward had a small gunner's turret with an 3 wide x 2 high PSK frame array attached to the left of the turret, the array slightly overhanging the left of the vehicle hull. It had 3 sD at the front that were meant to be fired as soon as the PSK were, so the Borgward could safely retreat.
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/225104-panzerjäger-wanze/ has a photo of the front of a Soviet captured one.

Precursor to the Ontos perhaps?
The M50 Ontos was a more flexible and longer ranged weapon than a "dash out and stab you with a kitchen knife" type but both had short but high volume of fire and needed to have the crew exposed to reload. So, yes, you are right in that the M50 was closest in design.
 
Last edited:
Top