Bog check in buildings

apbills

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The DRM are listed in the table as "at half MP allotment" but are a bit confusing/misleading.
+3*Entry of woods, graveyard, wooden-building or rubble, at half MP allotment
+4*Entry of stone building at half MP allotment

Graveyards, Buildings and Rubble do not call out the reduced DRM for using more than half movement.
Graveyard
18.41 ... Otherwise, only fully-tracked vehicles may enter a graveyard and they must expend half their MP allotment plus check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM [EXC: motorcycles may enter via a non-road hexside at a cost of four MP, except across a wall or hedge].
Building
B23.4 ... A vehicle may enter a building hex only via VBM (D2.3), Factory Stairwell (23.742), or by risking rubble/cellar collapse (23.41) [EXC: Marketplace; 23.73], and may never occupy an upper building level.
23.41 CELLARS: Only a fully-tracked, CT, BU AFV without Riders may enter a building obstacle [EXC: Marketplace (23.73); Factory Stairwell (23.742)] and does so at a total MP cost equal to half of its printed MP allotment (plus the additional one-fourth of its MP allotment if it makes an OVR attack; D7.1).
Rubble
B24.4 ... Vehicles may not enter a rubble hex unless they are fully-tracked, and must expend half their MP allotment plus check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM in the rubble hex.

So only a fully tracked AFV can even enter the building, and only a fully tracked vehicle can enter graveyard and rubble, all non-fully tracked vehicle types are NA on the terrain chart. I can not find a reference allowing a reduced DRM for using full MP in these three terrain types.

It is woods that allows for the full MP expenditure (of fully tracked vehicles) and reduced BOG DRM.
Woods
13.41 VEHICLES: Any vehicle may enter a woods hex without using Road or VBM by expending all of its movement capability (other than for starting [D2.12], stopping [D2.13], towing [C10.1] and even if using Minimum Move) to enter that hex and then making a Bog DR [EXC: Motorcycles must be pushed].
13.42 FULLY-TRACKED: A fully-tracked vehicle may also enter a woods hex (by other than Bypass, Trail Break, or Road) by expending half of its MP allotment in that hex, but it must check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM.

Maybe I missed something, but more precise language in the table would be (if I did not miss a reference to reduced DRM for using full MP)
+3*Entry of woods at half MP allotment, graveyard, wooden-building or rubble
+4*Entry of stone building

At some point I thought there was errata or a Q&A regarding that table, but I have not found it.
 

MajorDomo

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Trying to follow thus thread at an advanced age. What I think the conclusions are:

1. Entry of building by a closed top, BU AFV at 1/2 MP requires a +3 bog check (+4 stone). A colored 6 on Bog check roll drops the AFV into the cellar ( crew can try to crawl out on CS/cs). A colored 1 on the bog check roll may rubble various constructed buildings.

2. Turning an AFV's VCA in a building requires a bog check with a +3 (+4 stone?) There is no chance to fall into the cellar or rubble the building.

3. Entry of woods at all MP reduces the Bog chance to 12 (plus or minus ground pressure...) from the normal +3 bog check. The +3 still applies to entry at half MP.

4. Turning an AFV's VCA in the woods requires a 12 bog check.

In all cases, if the bog attempt results in a bog, then the VCA does not turn.
 

clubby

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Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I can't find the answer anywhere via searching and me and my opponent can't agree on the rulebook wording.

When a CT fully tracked AFV attempts to enter a building and fails the bog check DR, where is the AFV bogged? In the building or outside the building where it attempted entry? Thanks
 

clubby

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Inside the building...
I win. We played Merzenhausen Zoo and it came down to the last German turn. He had taken the 38th Stone Location in the American turn 8. He also generated 3 heroic battle hardened leaders and one hero in that phase. I needed to drive one King Tiger into a building OR kill a heroic leader/667 holding one location. I broke the 667 in PF and then advanced a 548 and 447 into CC with the leader. He got ambush but didn't kill me. I needed a 10 to kill him or an 11 to CR. +1 for ambush, I rolled a 10 and he passed the wound severity dr for the win. Or we thought because he insisted that my King Tiger was bogged in the road. I wasn't sure. We'll probably call it a draw. What a great scenario.🤣
 

Stewart

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Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I can't find the answer anywhere via searching and me and my opponent can't agree on the rulebook wording.

When a CT fully tracked AFV attempts to enter a building and fails the bog check DR, where is the AFV bogged? In the building or outside the building where it attempted entry? Thanks
Not sure why referring to an older thread has ever been an issue.
New players show up all the time....and with MUCH of the static that is present in some discussions, one could lose his way.
 

clubby

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Not sure why referring to an older thread has ever been an issue.
New players show up all the time....and with MUCH of the static that is present in some discussions, one could lose his way.
Just wanted to emphasize that I had tried to do some research beforehand, but every search brought this older thread up.
 
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