Bog check in buildings

Elrohir69

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I've read and re-check this rule many times yesterday and today. And it seems to me that is clear but that the bog check drm is somehow misleading. I started a thread in the FB group but it didn't help, it seems that not everybody is playing the rule in the same way.

So, as per the rules, the COT to enter a building for a fully tracked vehicle is:

B23.41 CELLARS: Only a fully-tracked, CT, BU AFV without Riders may enter a building obstacle [EXC: Marketplace (23.73); Factory Stairwell (23.742)] and does so at a total MP cost equal to half of its printed MP allotment ...

There is no mention (or I couldn't find it) about any other way to enter a building. I assume that you may spend more MP, but I couldn't find any other reference or benefit of using more than half, or all, MP.

Then, the same rule states: Such non-VBM entry of a building hex requires an immediate Bog Check DR with a +3 DRM to the Bog Check only (+4 for stone buildings). I will not enter in other considerations such as the risk of rubbling the building or falling to the cellar, that's not the point of my question. So far, to me, the rule is clear. If you enter a building with a fully-tracked vehicle, the minimum cost is half of its MP allotment and it must pass a bog check with a +3/+4 DRM for wood/stone buildings respectively (plus other drms related to other conditions such as ground pressure, etc).

Then you go to the rule D8.21 BOG CHECK, the DRM table states:

+3 *Entry of woods, graveyard, wooden-building or rubble, at half MP allotment
+4 *Entry of stone building at half MP allotment


And here comes the confusion, I think. The way the rule is phrased is confusing, as it seems that there's an option of getting a different DRM if you spend more than half MP. For woods, the DRM will be zero if the AFV use all of its MP allotment and +3 if you use half of it. Hence, some people are using the same rule for buildings. Some other people even said that you may use less than half and get an extra +3/+4 DRM for the bog check. I haven't found any rule supporting any of those options.

Am I right and the DRM for entering a building is +3/+4 no matter how many MP you use (as far as you use at least half of them), or am I missing some rule?

Please, bring some light to this issue!
 

Robin Reeve

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But a VCA change in the building, which is not entering it, doesn't incur that Bog DRM.
 

turlusiflu

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Following the rules, it is as you say. In buildings you have to spend at least half of the MP allotment (but you may spend more). And you have to roll the +3/+4. There is not a "safe" way to enter a building (as there is to enter a woods)
 

Philippe D.

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I think the confusion may come from the fact that Woods work differently: a fully-tracked AFV may avoid the +3DRM by spending its full MP allotment. That would explain the "half MP allotment" mention in the D8.21 table.
 

Elrohir69

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I think the confusion may come from the fact that Woods work differently: a fully-tracked AFV may avoid the +3DRM by spending its full MP allotment. That would explain the "half MP allotment" mention in the D8.21 table.
Agree. They should have kept a separate line for buildings without the comment about MP. It should be something to consider in a future reprint.
 

buser333

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Following the rules, it is as you say. In buildings you have to spend at least half of the MP allotment (but you may spend more). And you have to roll the +3/+4. There is not a "safe" way to enter a building (as there is to enter a woods)
There is one safe way to enter a building. You can use a vehicular entrance to enter a Factory.
 

Tuomo

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Question - assume an AFV has safely barged into a building but then wants to change VCA. Does it risk falling into the Cellar on the Bog DR?
 

apbills

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I would say no. Per B23.41:
"Such non-VBM entry of a building hex requires an immediate Bog Check DR with a +3 DRM to the Bog Check only (+4 for stone buildings). If the AFV rolls ≤ 0 on the colored dr of the Bog Check DR, the building hex has been rubbled. ... If the AFV rolls an Original 6 on the colored dr of the Bog Check DR, the AFV has fallen through the floor to the cellar and is removed. "

It appears you only risk the Cellar fate when entering the building hex. I think you can only rubble the building on entry as well. I don't see a Q&A on this that might clarify more definitively.
 

Carln0130

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B: Requires Bog DR to enter/change-VCA-within.
From the Green Chart Chapter B Divider for terrain under Buildings. You do risk Bog changing VCA in a Building. A capital B is listed in the Stone Building and Wooden Building as well as Rubble Line. You will not fall into the cellar changing VCA however.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Here is an old QA...

B23.41 & D8.2
A Perry Sez as of 2007 stated that the +3/+4 bog check for an AFV also applies for turning VCA in a building (where it doesn’t for Woods since a Vehicle can also enter woods with no modifier). Does this mean that a vehicle can also fall into the cellar/rubble a building when turning VCA?
A. Cellar/rubble only apply upon entry...
 

Tuomo

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Thanks Klas. Wow, I failed the Q&A Check bigtime. Don't see how, but an inquiry will be conducted.
 

apbills

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I did as well, but I see that is in the "Errata" section at the end. The text I quoted has the referenced errata in it, so maybe that is why I came to the correct conclusion.
 

Stewart

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Here is an old QA...

B23.41 & D8.2
A Perry Sez as of 2007 stated that the +3/+4 bog check for an AFV also applies for turning VCA in a building (where it doesn’t for Woods since a Vehicle can also enter woods with no modifier). Does this mean that a vehicle can also fall into the cellar/rubble a building when turning VCA?
A. Cellar/rubble only apply upon entry...
How does the +3/+4 apply if the vehicle isn't expending MP to Enter the location?

I can't seem to find the rule that allows FULL MP with no bog check mods for other vehicles.
So a Truck/ht/AC enter the woods with only minimal mods? Yet they HAVE to expend ALL to enter.

Why is there a B*/Z for Fully tracked...why the '/'? meaning?
It's late here...and just need clarity.
 

klasmalmstrom

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How does the +3/+4 apply if the vehicle isn't expending MP to Enter the location?
Its does not apply - I see now that I cut off the answer a bit....the full answer was:
"A. Cellar/rubble only apply upon entry. And I am not so sure about the DRMs applying for VCA change in a building."

The rule was updated/clarified with errata in ASL Journal 11.


I can't seem to find the rule that allows FULL MP with no bog check mods for other vehicles.
I think default is ALL MP for all vehicles - it's only fully-tracked that can enter spending HALP MP with increased Bog DRM.
 

Faded 8-1

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Other types of vehicles (than fully-tracked) cannot enter buildings (see rule quoted in OP's post).

Motorcycles may be pushed into them however.
 

Stewart

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I think default is ALL MP for all vehicles - it's only fully-tracked that can enter spending HALP MP with increased Bog DRM.
So, ONLY AFV can avoid the mods if using ALL MP.
Just to be crystal clear.
 
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