BoF16 Saluting A General - AAR

BattleSchool

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Well,.... actually, the Russian tanks are better off than you think. 🤓

The Lee's have a fast turret
The Stuarts are a small target
An APCR # of 5 is actually quite low and should not be factored into the German "tactics". A "no APCR" result effectively ends the threat of a 50 gun to the Lee's front AF.
A Pz IIIGs hull AF is 3 meaning the 37LL has a final TK of 8 (immob, 7 kill)
A Stuart's hull AF is 4 meaning the 50 has a final TK of 7 (immob, 6 kill)
The terrain means LOS hindrances render long range hits unlikely if a tank moves.
Russian armour will usually get the first shot with better TH and TK possibilities.
A German tank w/o an AL that moves has a +4 to hit as a bounding firer, +5 if BU (likely), +6 if shooting at a Stuart (+5 if there is an AL)
A Stuart has better or equal to hit chance in this case even if it must change its TCA: +2 TCA change, +3 if BU, +5 for the moving tank.
The Stuart will also win a gun duel as its Firer based To Hit mods (w/ a TCA change) are +3 while a Pz IIIG is +4 (BU w/ AL) or +5 ( BU, no AL).

Once the numbers are parsed, the 1942 era Stuart III has marked advantages over the 1940 era Pz IIIG. The Lee is in a class unto itself against the Germans in this scenario, which is actually historically accurate, so no complaints.

In the game betwixt von M and myself, the Pz IIIGs failed to kill a single Russian tank. The five killed were shot by the Pz IIIJs.
First, my rejoinder was simply a reminder that the German tanks have a lot more going for them than Black TH#. For example, I didn't mention Smoke Dispensers, which are unique to the German tanks in this scenario.

As for tactics, that's another kettle of catfish that I won't get into here. Suffice it to say that only the Pz IIIJs had APCR on the original card. On the MMP card, all eight baby cats have APCR. And that shouldn't be dismissed as "tactically" insignificant because APCR effectively grants each panzer two TH attempts in its first encounter, three if we include IF, and ignore the higher ROF of the 50mm guns. That's not nothing. IOW, four Pz IIIG and one Pz IIIH are more evenly matched with the three Stuarts--their priority targets--than your analysis suggests.
 

The Purist

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No disagreement, all those benefits do exist. I would, however, add the caveat "potentially" to 'more evenly matched...'

German success in this scenario should not be predicated on achieving low odds DRs when needed. Having A5, sD6 (assumed BU) and an ROF of 2, etc. is nice in theory but cannot be counted on. The German player needs to be cognisant of the fact that the Stuarts have better TH #s during the Def First Fire and Def Fire phases as well as being able to win most gun duel situations.

As we have seen in three games now, Russian armour has handily won the tank battle despite these hypothetical German advantages. I managed to kill five Russian tanks but this was achieved by only two Pz IIIJs. Had Andre not malfunctioned five guns (yup 5, 1 Stuart and 2 Lee tanks lost their MA and SA), I doubt I would have come close to the objective area. Even with all those malf'd guns I was left with little choice but to execute a human wave against the objective in the end game (apparently a similar theme in the other games as well). :)

All that aside the scenario is fun and worth playing as both the German and Russian.
 
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Tuomo

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One thing worth noting about this scenario is that the VASL version of board 85 erroneously blocks LOS along the woods-road from J5 (I think that's the hex) out to P8. It's clear on the real boards, and it's a hugely important LOS on this board, so we need to fix that.
 

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One thing worth noting about this scenario is that the VASL version of board 85 erroneously blocks LOS along the woods-road from J5 (I think that's the hex) out to P8. It's clear on the real boards, and it's a hugely important LOS on this board, so we need to fix that.
EXACTLY. I lost a tank on this LOS and it was later pointed out it was blocked. It never even occurred to me to check the LOS. A.2 cost me there. C'est la guerre-- jim
 

BattleSchool

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As we have seen in three games now, Russian armour has handily won the tank battle despite these hypothetical German advantages. I managed to kill five Russian tanks but this was achieved by only two Pz IIIJs.
I'd be careful about drawing conclusions based on a tiny sample size (< 10 games).

The MMP card added a Pz IIIG. The extra AFV ought to make the scenario less pro-Russian than the original card was. And yet ROAR doesn’t reflect this. Based solely on the ROAR stats to date, one could make a specious argument that the extra tank actually helps the Russians, by encouraging more risk taking on the part of the Attacker.

Common sense tells us that over time the scenario will trend more toward the Germans, certainly more than the original design did. I don’t expect it to reach parity. But until we have more data, we can only speculate on how imbalanced the scenario is. Therefore, we need to be cautious about suggesting solutions to a problem, the scale of which, remains unknown. (I'd like to comment on your earlier point about swapping a couple Pz IIIG for Pz IIIH in another reply.)
 

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EXACTLY. I lost a tank on this LOS and it was later pointed out it was blocked. It never even occurred to me to check the LOS. A.2 cost me there. C'est la guerre-- jim
I seem to recall that A.2 spared one of your Pz IIIG on Turn 2. Just sayin'.

A.2 giveth, and A.2 taketh away.
 

The Purist

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One thing worth noting about this scenario is that the VASL version of board 85 erroneously blocks LOS along the woods-road from J5 (I think that's the hex) out to P8. It's clear on the real boards, and it's a hugely important LOS on this board, so we need to fix that.
So,.... how should the VASL LOS be played then? Klar, oder blokiert??
 

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The AAR for my game with @Andy Bagley is here. It is pretty long and will be posted in multiple parts. Thanks to Chris Doary (@BattleSchool) for doing the hard lifting to put it up on his blog and providing third party commentary. If the Journal was faster, I would have put it there but they are so slow to publish anymore, it would just take too long. -- jim
 
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Actionjick

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I am not sure of the exact count, but counting APCR shots that depleted, I took more than 10 shots at Stuarts and managed to kill only 1. In two fire phases, I shot at a single Stuart in the woods 8 times, hitting it twice and bouncing. I lost one tank in return and broke one MA. The game ended with me hitting and failing to pen another Stuart and then getting hit with a return B1F shot that killed the tank that had the temerity to scratch it's paint. In the next fire phase, I shot at this same Stuart and missed, then Intesive Fired scoring a 1,1 on the TH DR only to 6,6 the TK DR. Needless to say, the dice were not my allies in my game. -- jim
Maybe you should rethink your purchases of 15 Euro dice and buy some cheap ones. Your expensive ones aren't working well. You might consider a cheap plastic dice tower also. I suggest one from the Chute Five game. 😉😉
 

Sparafucil3

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Maybe you should rethink your purchases of 15 Euro dice and buy some cheap ones. Your expensive ones aren't working well. You might consider a cheap plastic dice tower also. I suggest one from the Chute Five game. 😉😉
I know when I win or lose, the dice aren't at fault. Also, paying so much for them prevents me from crushing, smashing, burning or otherwise abusing my dice. Trust me, the thought crosses my mind from time to time. Line all the others up and make them watch their mate melt into a pile of dripping goo. Melt one in acetone. Not that I have given it a thought or anything like that. -- jim
 
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Actionjick

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I know when I win or lose, the dice aren't at fault. Also, paying so much for them prevents me from crushing, smashing, burning or otherwise abusing my dice. Trust me, the thought crosses my mind from time to time. Line all the others up and make them watch their mate melt into a pile of dripping goo. Melt one in acetone. Not that I have given it a thought or anything like that. -- jim
I can tell such thoughts never occurred to you. 🙄
 

Sparafucil3

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WRONG! The dice are always at fault! I hereby sentence them to to be rolled until they repent!
Blaming the dice is one course of action but I would rather focus on the things I can control. If you follow along in the AAR posted on Sitrep (you can find it here) you will see me take apart my own game, the mistakes I made, what it cost me, etc. The dice didn't do it to me, I did it to myself (with Andy's help). -- jim
 

Actionjick

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Blaming the dice is one course of action but I would rather focus on the things I can control. If you follow along in the AAR posted on Sitrep (you can find it here) you will see me take apart my own game, the mistakes I made, what it cost me, etc. The dice didn't do it to me, I did it to myself (with Andy's help). -- jim
Spoken like a true gentleman and honorable gamer. Of course that sentiment coming from a heathen doesn't really mean that much!😉
 
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