Boats

antony.marsh

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A squad is manhandling a boat. It enters a hex adjacent to a river hex. Can an enemy DFF at the squad and boat with -2 hazardous fire or can the squad drop the boat to beach it and so the boat cannot be hit. In other words can the squad and boat be attacked before it beaches it. Cheers
 

klasmalmstrom

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It looks to me that if you declare Beaching as you enter the Boat would be Beached before any defensive fire.

E5.23:
"Beaching can occur freely during the boat’s MPh/APh if it is declared as it enters any land/water hex ..."
 

antony.marsh

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It looks to me that if you declare Beaching as you enter the Boat would be Beached before any defensive fire.

E5.23:
"Beaching can occur freely during the boat’s MPh/APh if it is declared as it enters any land/water hex ..."
It looks to me that if you declare Beaching as you enter the Boat would be Beached before any defensive fire.

E5.23:
"Beaching can occur freely during the boat’s MPh/APh if it is declared as it enters any land/water hex ..."
So the boat carrying squad cannot be attacked on land in the adjacent hex? It just jumps Into the beached boat where it can be attacked?
 

klasmalmstrom

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So the boat carrying squad cannot be attacked on land in the adjacent hex? It just jumps Into the beached boat where it can be attacked?
You can attack it on the MF spent to Manhandle to Boat into the hex next to River. It just seems like the manage to Beach boat before any defensive fire.

One can declare Beaching upon entry, and declared actions are usually completed before any defensive fire is allowed.
 

antony.marsh

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You can attack it on the MF spent to Manhandle to Boat into the hex next to River. It just seems like the manage to Beach boat before any defensive fire.

One can declare Beaching upon entry, and declared actions are usually completed before any defensive fire is allowed.
If you DFF before it beaches how is the attack determined? Can the boat be destroyed and not the squad? Can you fire at the beached boat only? Cheers
 

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The boats should be attacked as unarmoured targets while still in possession of the infantry as per E5.51. The process of manhandling , beaching and loading is covered pretty well in the third example in the left hand column of page E11.

Manhandling a boat into a hex costs 2 MF and beaching can be declared as part of the 2 MF. The act of beaching during the MPh isn't complete until 2 MF are expended so both boat and infantry can be attacked in the land hex as they enter/expend the first MF. After the 2nd MF the boat is beached across the land/water hexside (if boat and infantry are still in one piece) and the squad can expend a 3rd MF to load. The infantry are now at the same elevation as the water.

If the Boat unbeaches as part of the third MF to load it would be targeted as per E5.5 - .52

That is how we have been handling the Boat rules in Dinant.

I can't see any way Boats can skip through a hex and into the water without being shot at while expending 2 MF entering the hex as described in the example on page E11. The only way I see a fast water entry as possible is if the infantry in possession of the boat begin the MPh ADJACENT to a water hex.
 
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antony.marsh

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Thanks chaps. That second paragraph really helped. Yes I'm starting Dinant. Just one last thing, what are the stacking capabilities of boats and squads? 3 squads 3 boats? Does the boat-assault, small raft, large raft-affect the stacking? Cheers.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Manhandling a boat into a hex costs 2 MF and beaching can be declared as part of the 2 MF. The act of beaching during the MPh isn't complete until 2 MF are expended so both boat and infantry can be attacked in the land hex as they enter/expend the first MF. After the 2nd MF the boat is beached (if boat and infantry are still in one piece) across the land/water hexside and the squad can expend a 3rd MF to load. The infantry are now at the same elevation as the water.
Both the 2 MF are expended simultaneously, and the example also says: "and may Beach the boat as part of that two-MF expenditure".

I can buy that the declared Beaching should only be allowed if the Manhandling Infantry is still in Good-Order/unpinned/whatever after all defensive first fire vs that 2-MF expenditure. It even sort of makes sense to play it that way. I just don't see that in the rules, but granted, this is Chaper E - not the clearest of the chapters in the rulebook. :)
 

antony.marsh

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Both the 2 MF are expended simultaneously, and the example also says: "and may Beach the boat as part of that two-MF expenditure".

I can buy that the declared Beaching should only be allowed if the Manhandling Infantry is still in Good-Order/unpinned/whatever after all defensive first fire vs that 2-MF expenditure. It even sort of makes sense to play it that way. I just don't see that in the rules, but granted, this is Chaper E - not the clearest of the chapters in the rulebook. :)
So how should it be played? How does stacking of boats work on land? Cheers
 

antony.marsh

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Might have to send in a Q&A to MMP.



I believe they can stack. Once Beached or in the water they are treated as vehicles though - so overstacking might come into effect then.
On land what are they stacked as? A gun? A support weapon ? An unarmoured vehicle ? And I hate to ask does size matter? Cheers.
 

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I would agree.

On land and unpossessed they are just a pile of boats sitting on the ground. Note that more than one squad can take possession of a boat counter (especially in the case of large rafts) and that it only takes a HS to manhandle a boat with up to 15PP capacity. If more than the minimum Manhandles a boat don't forget the negative modifiers for C10.3 apply. This helps getting small rafts through building hexes if you don't want to risk bypass and FFMO/NAM.

Just in case you are thinking about keeping the boats out of LOS until you clear some French defenders from the west bank and heights. ?
 
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antony.marsh

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I would agree.

On land and unpossessed they are just a pile of boats sitting on the ground. Note that more than one squad can take possession of a boat counter (especially in the case of large rafts) and that it only takes a HS to manhandle a boat with up to 15PP capacity. If a more than the minimum Manhandles a boat don't forget the negative modifiers for C10.3 apply. This helps getting small rafts through building hexes if you don't want to risk bypass and FFMO/NAM.

Just in case you are thinking about keeping the boats out of LOS until you clear some French defenders from the west bank and heights. ?
Well, I now feel I'm ready to tackle a few river crossings after those clarifications, cheers chaps. Hopefully there won't be any more issues.
 
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