boards that don't line up - who cares? Center dots are an artifice.

Rock SgtDan

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As long as the boards don't shift their relative positions during a game (and even then, it doesn't really matter) the position of the dot is meaningless.

In fact, the game could have been designed with multiple dots per hex, requiring a clear LOS to any dot.

Or with the dot in a random position within the hex.

Half a dozen guys are in some unspecified, and changing, spot within a 40 meter wide area. The dot is not sacred.
 

AZslim

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As long as the boards don't shift their relative positions during a game (and even then, it doesn't really matter) the position of the dot is meaningless.

In fact, the game could have been designed with multiple dots per hex, requiring a clear LOS to any dot.

Or with the dot in a random position within the hex.

Half a dozen guys are in some unspecified, and changing, spot within a 40 meter wide area. The dot is not sacred.
Your dot is way off center.
 

RobZagnut

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Played Star Wars: Imperial Asaault on Saturday. You have LOS to an enemy unit if you can trace LOS to two corners of a square.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Sure it's artificial, so is everything rules wise in ASL. When did you last look out your upper story window and see the faint outline of hexagons tracing through the road and into your yard? Maybe once or twice after a 6 hour game, but I bet they were not there the next morning.

While ASL is a tiny bit more sophisticated than knocking over Airfix soldiers with your index finger going "rat-tat-tat", all games have rules to give some faint illusion of reality. Most war boardgames use hexagons (a few use squares and more, still a minority, use irregular 'areas') because that type of regular polygon tiling introduces the least distortion when counting relative distances.

Once you use hexagons then you have two choices, either use the painted obstacle outline for LOS obstruction or assume any obstacle occupies the whole of the hex for rules purposes.

If the later is the only type (like ASL inherent terrain) then LOS can be determined by simple geometry without any explicit reference to the hex centre (though the effect is actually equivalent to from hex centre to hex centre).

For the first type, which is the dominant ASL type (though there is some complete hex types) then you have to lay down a ruler, thread, dick or laser to see if the artwork blocks LOS. For SL (in its design stage) it was decided to use the hex centre dot for LOS rules purposes. That centre dot is the 'centre of mass', as it were. Geometrically if you draw a line through a hex (or square) from any point outside the hex the longest possible line segment that is within the hex boundary will pass through the centre. In addition any such line that goes through a hex centre exactly divides the area of a hex into 2 identical (in shape, size and area) parts.

The game assumption is that going through the centre will contain the biggest portion of the hex. That may be or may not always be true (you may be able to see 80% of a hex but a hut blocks the centre dot), but it allows the rules writer to lay down a solid rule and avoid the "but it just touches the hex corner" argument when 99.9% of the hex is masked. You still will get the occasional centre-centre LOS just about brushing an obstacle, but at least in that case you usually will be able to see 50% of the hex.

While the C-C method is not perfect it does allow for a compact, relatively shark proof, rule method of maximising the hex area that is visible. As RobZagnut has pointed out there are other methods that work (quite?) well. Using a concept (centre dot) that all except complete cret... sorry ... severely mentally challenged have an almost instinctive grasp of being the best chance of 'hitting the bulk' of the hex helps in the absorption and acceptance of the rule.

Will the C-C rule always ensure that if a legal LOS exists that you can see, say, >50% of a hex? No. It does maximise the chances of that. It is a simple, easy to understand method, can be checked with reasonable accuracy and is fairly sleaze proof. And it is in The Rulebook, Amen.
 

Steven Pleva

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As long as the boards don't shift their relative positions during a game (and even then, it doesn't really matter) the position of the dot is meaningless.

In fact, the game could have been designed with multiple dots per hex, requiring a clear LOS to any dot.

Or with the dot in a random position within the hex.

Half a dozen guys are in some unspecified, and changing, spot within a 40 meter wide area. The dot is not sacred.
I am having trouble understanding your proposal. Write up a rule proposal with a small map diagram and I'll review it...
 

Pitman

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I vote that Idiot,SgtIdiot not be allowed to start threads until he has actually played a scenario of ASL against someone. Why denizens of this forum should be subjected to constant trolling by a non-ASLer is beyond me. Kick him the **** off.
 

Rock SgtDan

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>Once you use hexagons then you have two choices, either use the painted obstacle outline for LOS obstruction or assume any obstacle occupies the whole of the hex for rules purposes.
>

OR you could put a dot in a random location, or put several dots.

My point is that the location of the men in the 40m hex is undetermined. There are many other conceptual ways of locating them besides a center dot.

Therefore, getting the hexes to line up perfectly between two boards is NOT REQUIRED to make the mechanism of center dot to center dot work.

Lotta people here seem to have early onset Alzheimers; they can't follow a clearly stated thesis sentence and ramble off on some different tangent:

As long as the boards don't shift their relative positions during a game (and even then, it doesn't really matter) the position of the dot is meaningless.
 

Martin Mayers

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>Once you use hexagons then you have two choices, either use the painted obstacle outline for LOS obstruction or assume any obstacle occupies the whole of the hex for rules purposes.
>

OR you could put a dot in a random location, or put several dots.

My point is that the location of the men in the 40m hex is undetermined. There are many other conceptual ways of locating them besides a center dot.

Therefore, getting the hexes to line up perfectly between two boards is NOT REQUIRED to make the mechanism of center dot to center dot work.

Lotta people here seem to have early onset Alzheimers; they can't follow a clearly stated thesis sentence and ramble off on some different tangent:

As long as the boards don't shift their relative positions during a game (and even then, it doesn't really matter) the position of the dot is meaningless.
IT'S A GAME !

There are no men in that 40m hex.

In fact there is no 40m.

Do you not understand it's just a game?
 

Rock SgtDan

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Of course.

But to restate the point for the 3rd time: It doesn't matter if two boards are not exactly lined up. The game still works just fine.
 

klasmalmstrom

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But to restate the point for the 3rd time: It doesn't matter if two boards are not exactly lined up. The game still works just fine.
Has anyone claimed that the game is unplayable if the boards are not exactly lined up ?
 

Martin Mayers

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Of course.

But to restate the point for the 3rd time: It doesn't matter if two boards are not exactly lined up. The game still works just fine.
This is how the game works... Two opponents match up, lay the boards down solid so that both are happy with the board alignments. And VOILA. The hex centres are determined. That's that. No science. No mystical ways of the ASL Ninja. The boards are down....done....the game commences. The players roll with the boards as laid down.

There is no discussion to be had on this really.
 

hongkongwargamer

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Philosophically, you are right.

But when I play .. and I always play another person (vs playing solo) ... and when I say I can see and hit that enemy unit and my opponent is saying "no" .. those boards better line up.

I assure you we are not going to discuss center dots every few minutes.

Rgds Jack
 
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Martin Mayers

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Philosophically, you are right.

But when I play .. and I always play another person (vs playing solo) and I am saying I can see and hit that enemy unit and my opponent is saying "no" .. those boards better line up.

I assure you we are not going to discuss center dots every few minutes.

Rgds Jack
Yup. I've been in games where due to a little bit of board slippage we've both agreed to budge the boards slightly THEN "still want to shoot?"

But it's probably half a dozen times in 25 years and life went on before, and went on after.

I mean, how analytical can the game get before it becomes like running a legal practice :)
 

olli

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Of course.

But to restate the point for the 3rd time: It doesn't matter if two boards are not exactly lined up. The game still works just fine.
Best attend some tournament and see how important the centre points line up in a game winning/ losing shot actually is when the tourney director gets involved! In friendly games if the maps move we just re-align the maps, no problem no drama at all.
 

tmanmerlin

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But to restate the point for the 3rd time: It doesn't matter if two boards are not exactly lined up. The game still works just fine.
Absolutely wrong. I had the whole collection, but this fatal flaw caused me to get rid of all geo boards. The boards not lining up ruins the experience, and negates most of the rules. That is why Critical Hit maps are the only way to conceivably play this game (or MMP single sheet maps).
 

Steven Pleva

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Wow, I could just imagine some slow players completely locking up at the prospect of dealing with multiple LOS dots in each hex. I bet I could get Peaches' head to explode given the right scenario... :bite:

Steve
 
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