Boards 58 and 78 - Remarkably Similar, Yet Totally Different?

[Sparafucil3]

Adressing some points still takes much less volume than the actual slope rules.

Maybe. Maybe not. The devil would be in the details. -- jim

 

[jrv]

The hard part about trying to add slope-like rules is their directionality. There are only a few places if any at all on a hill where you can see to lower levels through 360°. In most places you can see smoothly down the front of the hill but not back behind you, which either stays level or rises up to a peak. And in most places you can't even see sidewards to lower levels. If you have mostly one-hex-wide contours, level rules work well. When you want to have wide contours but depict a more even slope instead of a wedding cake, you need something else. One way to get the directionality is to mark hexsides, as slopes do. Any other solution must, in my opinion, have some way of determining directionality of the permitted LOSes. If a solution does not have directionality, it fails what I consider the prime function that slopes perform and cannot be considered a suitable replacement for slopes.

Another prominent feature of slopes is that they can see OVER half-level obstacles such as walls, hedges, rubble, etc. This is a secondary consideration, but for any slope-replacement rule would have to handle this if it is to be used as a replacement in existing scenarios.

The TEM for slope pockets is a really small part of their functionality. I think it could even be removed from the existing slope rules without affecting very much at all.

With the wedding cake model, units only have LOS to lower elevations when they are at a crest line. Slopes increase the number of hexes where units have LOS to lower elevations, but in fact unless a map is really marked up with slopes, they don't really simulate a smooth hill much better than crest lines without them. But using slopes is a bit better, at the expense of complexity.

One might also consider increasing the number of hill crest lines by decreasing their modeled height, but then you would have to start adjusting the heights of other obstacles by counting them as 2-3 slope-replacement levels for each standard level. You would also have to adjust the number of blind hexes per slope-replacement level in a similar way.

If a slope-replacement rule passes the first two tests in a simpler way than slopes, I would take a good look at it. The "I can look in any direction from any hex as if at the peak of the hill SSR" fails the first test so badly I couldn't see it replacing slopes. It also fails the second test, but the first is far more important.

JR

 

[jrv]

The reason I think the posted map needs slopes is that otherwise it is a wedding cake hill. It does not depict a smooth hill very well, and each crest line creates a reverse-slope opportunity without even giving up height advantage. I have seen some hills that have flat tops, but not many that have flat layers at different levels. Most don't even have large, flat tops.

JR

 

[Tuomo]

Value of having a new board like this: xxxxxxxxxxx
Value of adding slopes: x

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Value of having a new board like this: xxxxxxxxxxx
Value of adding slopes: x

I like slopes, but this is inarguable, IMO.

 

[jrv]

I disagree with that. A hill with large areas of "plateau-ed" levels will fight very differently than the normal, "rounded" hill it is trying to represent. Unless the enemy has a hill of their own, such a battle will become a fight for each crest line. I can work with that, but it seems very strange.

JR

 

[Paul M. Weir]

I disagree with that. A hill with large areas of "plateau-ed" levels will fight very differently than the normal, "rounded" hill it is trying to represent. Unless the enemy has a hill of their own, such a battle will become a fight for each crest line. I can work with that, but it seems very strange.

JR

As you might know, I'm from Ireland and though resident in Dublin on the east coast, I spent many youthful years in the midlands. While many have described Ireland as like a saucer (rim = mountains) with a thin wet sponge (bogs) in the middle, Ireland is dominated by eskers. These are rolling hills formed from the deposition of material from retreating glaciers. Due to the pattern of rural fields and farms Ireland is like Normandy Bocage dropped on low Alpine foothills. Depending upon the action of wind, water, animals and man on terrain, I have walked over undulating farmland and have found many cases of hills that had obscuring drop-offs and intermediate plateaus so you can't see the base of the hill from certain higher elevations. Some of those demonstrated to me the difference between the crest/top of a hill and its practical "military crest".

So while I can only grasp balkas or hammada from photographs, I found 'plateau effects' to be quite realistic.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I like slopes, but this is inarguable, IMO.

You could add the slopes and allow designers to SSR out the slopes if they didn't want them. You can't SSR slopes in. -- jim

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

You could add the slopes and allow designers to SSR out the slopes if they didn't want them. You can't SSR slopes in. -- jim

Of course. Given they're not in the main body of Ch.B, I think it's highly unlikely MMP will put them on geo boards though.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Of course. Given they're not in the main body of Ch.B, I think it's highly unlikely MMP will put them on geo boards though.

Which is kind of sad IMO, but correct. FWIW, I have an idea for the new board. It fits in with a couple of books I am reading on two different fronts. -- jim

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Which is kind of sad IMO, but correct. FWIW, I have an idea for the new board. It fits in with a couple of books I am reading on two different fronts. -- jim

See Mr Dolan for crayons.

 

[Tuomo]

As you might know, I'm from Ireland and though resident in Dublin on the east coast, I spent many youthful years in the midlands. While many have described Ireland as like a saucer (rim = mountains) with a thin wet sponge (bogs) in the middle, Ireland is dominated by eskers. These are rolling hills formed from the deposition of material from retreating glaciers. Due to the pattern of rural fields and farms Ireland is like Normandy Bocage dropped on low Alpine foothills. Depending upon the action of wind, water, animals and man on terrain, I have walked over undulating farmland and have found many cases of hills that had obscuring drop-offs and intermediate plateaus so you can't see the base of the hill from certain higher elevations. Some of those demonstrated to me the difference between the crest/top of a hill and its practical "military crest".

OMG Paul you're like the worst Irish poet EVER. I tried reading that with a Celtic soundtrack and it didn't flow at ALL.

D-minus.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

OMG Paul you're like the worst Irish poet EVER. I tried reading that with a Celtic soundtrack and it didn't flow at ALL.

D-minus.

I'm an ex-programmer, not a poet!

 

[Tuomo]

I'm an ex-programmer, not a poet!

Awww, that's so cute. C'mon now, reach deep inside and gimme a Begorrah.

 

[footsteps]

Awww, that's so cute. C'mon now, reach deep inside and gimme a Begorrah.

Not in public, please. It might scare the horses.

 

[Honza]

Not in public, please. It might scare the horses.

There are no highly strung fillies here. Unfortunately.