Blue - Tourney Rd 1 - Against Rob C.

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Ok, here's the beginning of my aar. I'm going to try to give you an idea of what I was thinking...so don't laugh too hard. I'm still learning this operational stuff.

I tend to be fairly aggressive and try to find the path my opponent will least expect. Sometimes this works...sometimes it doesn't.

If you take a look at my plan map below (apparently, the zipped MSPaint file is to big, so I'll post in the DA Maps section), you'll get an idea of what I plan on doing and what I expect Rob to do.

I'm guessing that Rob will be starting in northeast corner of the map and that he'll move quickly to the south to gain control of the main objectives in the south. With this in mind, I'm going to try a wheel type attack where I'll try to hold him just north of the objectives with one unit and bring my other two manuever units around from the north to cut him off from his LOC and setup some attacks from the flanks.

The early turns will see limited use of my aviation assets as I want to increase there logistics and see what's out there first.

A couple of issues:
1. The map is big! And I'm not very good at keeping my units organized and moving efficiently...particularly my ADA units which I never have positioned correctly.
2. I need to blow the bridges in the south so he can't turn my sourthern flank. Though I think I can still get back and cut him off, it would be an unpleasant task and really throw me off.
3. I'm hoping to isolate his northern screening unit and destroy it early. We'll have to see how this works out and what his response is when he realizes how far north I am.
4. Hopefully I don't run out of turns. The map is big with a lot of space to cover, I'm hoping my move north doesn't keep me from wheeling around south and taking the objectives.
5. At some point, I'm going to need to move my aviation units I believe so that I can maximize my attacks. We'll have to see how that plays out, then find a good location.

Well, let's see how this thing goes! I've attached the big picture map with a rough outline of my plan.

Enjoy,
Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Well, turn 1 has been finished and it looks like Rob has not rushed south as fast as I'd like. :( He has at least one major Inf unit heading along the northern route (vic Obj. Vilma) that will run into my guys in 2 turns I'd guess if he continues west.

He's also held a major, major armor unit just southeast of the north bridge...looks like he may be seeing which path opens up so he can exploit with the armor.

He does appear to be moving some units south as I've picked up a Cav unit just west of Obj. Angie.

The current disposition of units may give me a slight advantage as I have more bridges available to cross west to east. I'm still hoping to isolate his Inf unit in the north and attack with 3BCT from the west and 2BCT from the south.

The family just got home so I'll have to finish later....
 
Last edited:

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Turn 1 continued...I know you couldn't sleep last night waiting for this. :) FYI, I'll post some screenshots soon.

With 2BCT and 3 BCT targeting the unit in the north, I plan on using 1BCT to screen my southern flank. Unfortunately, 1 BCT is 2 turns away from getting in position, so I've sent 2BCT's Cav unit south to screen for now.

To compensate for the missing recon assets, I'm going to have one of my AVN Cav units scout the area between 2BCT and REDFOR.

I'm still rushing my Engineer unit south with plans to blow some bridges and have 1BCT's Cav unit heading down that way as well to provide a tripwire in case he makes it around my southern flank.

Issues I'm still trying to figure out...
1. How to maximize my helicopters. I have plenty of AVN support, but I really have no clue as to the best way to employ it. Right now, I'm using 2 units as scouts and I'm hoping that once contact in the north is made, I can bring my Attack AVN units into the mix. Past experience doing this has not been too kind to my pilots unfortunately, so we'll have to see if I can do any better here.
2. How to best use my CAS missions. I only get 10 missions per 24 hours, so I have to be careful what I use them for. I'm always torn between using them to take out support units and HQ's or hitting Manuever units. I have the same question this time around. I guess if I ever figure out what the high value targets are, this will be easier to answer. :)
3. I can see that keeping all my units moving along is going to be a problem. First, because I suck at it and second because of all the bridges that serve as choke points.

Well, that's it for now. I just keep thinking to myself how those of you reading my AAR and then Rob's AAR could be cringing right now and saying..."this is going to get ugly very soon for Scully." :D

Take care,
Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Ok...we're through turn 2. Basically there are two key areas at this point -- North Center just west of Obj Vilma and the Center just north of Obj Betty. I've posted 2 screenshots here:

http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/showthread.php?t=679

one of each section.

North Situation:
I have 2BCT and 3BCT moving to attack RedFor's 2BDE on the southern flank. I'm using 1-17ACR as a screen west of 2BDE and am trying to loop 2-17ACR north around 2BDE to provide a screen against Redfor reinforcements from the east.

I have 2 Atk Aviation units set to attack -- one from the north and one from the south.

B/3-11 MLRS is set to counter-battery and a CFFZ marker has been set where I think the action will be.

I've also move one of my TAI to the killzone (hopefully). While this won't help on this turn, it will been a tremendous benefit next turn when I'll really pound him.

My intel assets have only picked up a couple of Cav units and an ADA unit between his 2BDE and Obj Vilma. He does have his 1BDE sitting east of the river in an apparent reserve role.

This whole situation looks way too good to be true, so we'll have to see what happens.

Center Situation:
F/1-18 Cav and E/1-18 Cav are moving into position to screen this flank. I don't want anybody sneaking through before 1BCT gets here to protect 2 and 3BCT.

Redfor has A/1-66 CAV in the vicinity, so I'm guessing his 3BDE is in the area.

Rest of Map:
I'm still racing D/1-18 Cav South to screen my flanks in the area of Obj Lisa. My engineer unit is also still moving that way to take out some bridges.

As I expected, the movement of my support units has been anything but smooth to this point. HQ and Supply units are still reasonably close so no major issues.

Still trying to determine best use of airstrikes. If I really get his 2BDE in a bind this next turn, I may use a couple to do some damage with the TAI.

I may also get more aggressive (I've barely used them so far) with my AVN units next turn if there's a good opportunity to eliminate his 2BDE. We'll have to see.

That's it for now.

Take care,
Brian
 
Last edited:

Ivan Rapkinov

Harpoon Forum Moderator
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
1
Location
Australia
Country
llAustralia
well, John contributed - but REDFOR's avenue of advance is restricted if you can eliminate two or three key bridges :)

I'm posting my own AAR thus far in a sec :)
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
I'm going to blow the bridges south of the city to prevent him from getting around my southern flank, but other than that I'm keeping them up for now.

If I can take out his 2bde in the next couple of turns, he's going to be in some trouble. If I do take it out, I'm hoping my original plan of looping around north and cutting him off from his LOC will actually work.

Who the heck knows though...we've only gone through 2 turns. :)

Brian
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
At first glance the terrain doesn't look that important in this scenario, but it doesn't take long to see how critical it really is. Those rivers are a major obstacle to movement and he who controls the bridges controls the flow of battle. Looks very nasty so far.
 

John Osborne

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
831
Reaction score
0
Location
Leavenworth, KS
Don Maddox said:
At first glance the terrain doesn't look that important in this scenario, but it doesn't take long to see how critical it really is. Those rivers are a major obstacle to movement and he who controls the bridges controls the flow of battle. Looks very nasty so far.
Yes, But who destorys the bridges :devil: also controls the flow of the battle :devil:

Never Surrender, Never Give Up

John
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Don Maddox said:
At first glance the terrain doesn't look that important in this scenario, but it doesn't take long to see how critical it really is. Those rivers are a major obstacle to movement and he who controls the bridges controls the flow of battle. Looks very nasty so far.

Very true Don. The terrain creates a lot of options to think about. Particularly with respect to the bridges. In the early stages, I think Blue (if you didn't allow moving during setup) has a bit of an advantage with the 3 bridges available to cross. If things work out the way I'm hoping they will, this will have turned out to be a huge advantage for me.

As far as blowing bridges goes, I like to be flexible and I feel that every bridge that is destroyed, limits my options. So I'm planning on blowing a couple, but will keep the rest up to give me several different routes. Of course, Rob could have a different thought and I won't be able to do much about it. :D

I also don't want to waste fire missions on the bridges when there are juicy targets waiting to get pounded.

Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
I'm back...sorry for being away so long and I don't have too much time, but I wanted to give a brief update from my side.

The last few turns have been both eventful and uneventful at the same time. We hit a standstill up north with both of us having fairly powerful forces facing each other. Rob has control of the two objectives in the south and is currently leading in victory points, but if I can hang on to what I have and take him out of the objectives in the south, I may be able to pull this thing out.

I have had several brain farts over the past few turns that I will detail in the future, but the big one I just let loose was shifting my 3BCT too far south to serve as a blocking unit a letting his 2BDE slip around to the north. I had originally planned on having 3BCT head south to attack the sourthern objectives, but changed my mind and decided to have them screen up north. Unfortunately, I forgot to change the path and now I'll have to fight north to save some units and one of the objectives I currently hold. The good news is that I didn't get too far so I'm in a decent attack position.

I'm going to leave 3BCT to deal with his 2BDE and move 2BCT south to start assaulting the objectives down there. I've been able to put 1BCT and several other units between his supply line and the units in the southern objectives. He's starting to move his forces down, but hopefully I can hold them off and take the Southern objectives before it's too late.

Rob definitely has the advantage right now, but if I can hold him in the north and buy some time in the south for my attacks to get going, I might be able to pull this out. Of course, I have to minimize my brain farts too! :)

When I get some time, I'll post some maps and more of my enlightening commentary. :laugh:

Take care,
Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
I've just posted the map of the main battle area after turn 10.

http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/showthread.php?p=1416&posted=1#post1416

This one is going to come down to the wire. I have his infantry units that are sitting on the city objectives in some trouble (Obj Lisa in particular), but I have to try to finish them off quickly as he is racing down some reinforcements from the North East and I'm not sure how long my screening force can hold on. In addition, I'm going to start having logistics troubles in a turn or two, but if I can eliminate his units I'll be able to open up another line for logistics. If I don't eliminate his units and can't open the logistics line up, I'm going to be in some deep sh*t.

This scenario has really turned into quite a free for all with both of us constantly shifting forces each turn.

I've sent a couple of my cav units to attack objectives he's holding with MP units (Obj Paula and Obj Wilma). These objectives are not critical to my victory, but I want him worried about them and hopefully diverting resources to keep me from taking the objectives.

I'm a bit more optimistic, but still think Rob has the edge. This has been a great scenario.

Take care,
Brian

We have a bit of a stalemate near Objective Linda as his 2BDE and my 3BCT are basically right on top of each other just off the objective. I'm hoping my cav unit attacking Obj Wilma forces him to worry about his supply line and causes him to pull back. Not sure he can do that with the limited time left, but one can hope.
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Well, this one is coming down to the wire. Turn 11 did not work out as well as I'd have liked as my screening force was hammered. Once the screen completely falls apart it's only a matter of time before he can do real damage to 1BCT.

Depending on how he attacks I may shift things a bit and move 2BCT east across the bridge and into his rear. This may be the only way to save 1BCT when the screen collapses.

The northern battle is pretty much a stalemate with 3BCT and his 2BDE. I do have my Cav unit attacking his ADA unit in Objective Wilma. I could use the extra points this objective will give me. I also still have a shot at taking Obj Paula with my Cav unit in the south, though this will be a little tougher.

Well, that's all for now.

Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Turn 12 went worse than turn 11.

My screening force folded up and went home much to the unhappiness of 1BCT whose playing the meat in a redfor sandwich right now. :(

I think winning may be out of the question, but we're going to see if I can grab another objective or two and at least keep it close.

Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Well, I just sent turn 15 off to Rob. I don't think I can pull it out without a major miracle. Once the screen broke down, I was in trouble and have been scrambling ever since.

I think the last few turns have shown the real difference between a game like DA and real-life. In real life, I would've reconsolidated and reorganized before pushing forward again. I was in a pretty good position, but was running out of turns, so I was much more aggressive than a real commander would've been. If I had made the correct real-life decision of reorganizing, there was no chance of me winning. So I made the game decision and took a couple of huge risks. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they'll pay off, but hopefully I made Rob sweat at least a little bit. :)

Basically, at this point I have several units, including 2BCT and a Cav unit assaulting Obj Betty as this is my last real hope for picking up any more objectives. I also have all my available AVN units attacking this objective. He's definitely in trouble here, but I don't think I can push him out in the last turn. We'll have to see.

I've moved 1BCT out of the redfor sandwich and am going to make a run at OBJ Paula with it. Once that screen broke down, I was in real bad shape, so the fact 1BCT is even around still is a victory in some ways. Not sure I can make it to Obj Paula in time, but we'll see.

Brian
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Well, Rob did a great job and won a minor victory. He had a strong response for all the different moves I tried and just seemed to be a step ahead of me. Great scenario though!

A few final thoughts:
-Attk Avn and Arty are almost useless against units in urban terrain.
-I still have to figure out the best targets for Attk Avn, Arty, and Airstrikes. My guess is it depends on the scenario, but I'm still struggling with hitting manuever units or support units.
-I have to be a bit more careful about what unit I send out as a screen. Those poor guys got eaten for breakfast!
-I actually maneuvered myself around better than anticipated. Nobody really ran too low with logistics and my ADA seemed to do a decent job.
-Not sure my NAI's were placed properly and certainly didn't assist with my Attk Avn.

We'll just have to see how things go next time.

Take care,
Brian
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Scully said:
A few final thoughts:

-Attk Avn and Arty are almost useless against units in urban terrain.
-I still have to figure out the best targets for Attk Avn, Arty, and Airstrikes. My guess is it depends on the scenario, but I'm still struggling with hitting manuever units or support units.
-I have to be a bit more careful about what unit I send out as a screen. Those poor guys got eaten for breakfast!
-I actually maneuvered myself around better than anticipated. Nobody really ran too low with logistics and my ADA seemed to do a decent job.
-Not sure my NAI's were placed properly and certainly didn't assist with my Attk Avn.
The relationship between NAIs and attack helicopters is somewhat nebulous and there appears to be more to it than what is in the player's guide. In short, aviation doesn't work well in the recon role and they get savaged by just about any serious opposition they run into. Also, sometimes they decide to attack and other times they simply go on a coffee break.

As far as which units to attack, I have mixed feelings on that. Ostensibly, command units and combat service support should be a priority any time it is practical to inflict damage on them. Kill the head and the body will die. That being said, some DA scnenarios are so short that killing off a supply unit or a HQ unit doesn't have much effect as there isn't sufficient time for the logistics to really have a major impact. On the other hand, I have seen ground maneuver brigades at 90%+ strength with excellent morale break and retreat away from an attack by an enemy battalion. At times these same units refuse to regain morale, even when well supplied and near their parent HQ. Most DA scenarios are short enough that if you break an enemy formation, chances are it will not be able to recover prior to the end of the fight. Or if it does it will be too far away from the battle to make much of an impact.
 

Scully

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
587
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
Don Maddox said:
The relationship between NAIs and attack helicopters is somewhat nebulous and there appears to be more to it than what is in the player's guide. In short, aviation doesn't work well in the recon role and they get savaged by just about any serious opposition they run into. Also, sometimes they decide to attack and other times they simply go on a coffee break.
I've noticed the same thing. One additional thing I noticed is that once they fire off all their ammo, they take a direct path back to their landing zone, even if they fly directly over an enemy unit. At which point they get shot up pretty good. I had helo's not attack units even when using an NAI to direct them. Very odd.

Don Maddox said:
As far as which units to attack, I have mixed feelings on that. Ostensibly, command units and combat service support should be a priority any time it is practical to inflict damage on them. Kill the head and the body will die. That being said, some DA scnenarios are so short that killing off a supply unit or a HQ unit doesn't have much effect as there isn't sufficient time for the logistics to really have a major impact. On the other hand, I have seen ground maneuver brigades at 90%+ strength with excellent morale turn and become broken from an attack from an enemy battalion. At times these same units refuse to regain morale, even when well supplied and near their parent HQ. Most DA scenarios are short enough that if you break and enemy formation, chances are it will not be able to recover prior to the end of the fight. Or if it does it will be too far away from the battle to make much of an impact.
I agree with all this. I had one of my BCT's knocked down to broken very early in the scenario and it never recovered, despite almost no contact until the last few turns.

I've always been one to attack the support services, but I'm not sure I've ever really got the payoff I've wanted within the scenario. I chose to attack the manuever units in this scenario, because I didn't think there was anyway to eliminate the support units in a meaningful way. Needless to say, attacking units in urban terrain is just about useless even if you have a TAI there.

Great scenario Don. I'm looking forward to round 2.

Brian
 
Top