Bloody Red Beach

Craig Benn

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I'm hoping to play this soon and looking at a setup for the Japanese. Any thoughts? In terms of fire discipline the Yanks get 3 fighter bombers on each of the first 3 turns and there's limited AA assets. Plus firing at the amphibians in deep ocean seems pointless. +2 v.small + 2 motion and Hull down. I figure not firing till Turn 2 (possibly Turn1 Japanese AFph -as after aircraft can do anything) and only if on the submerged reef. And defend from the lip of the beach to avoid the +1 Deir TEM. Anyone think you should fire from start or alternatively after the aircraft have gone?
 

Michael R

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I don't remember any Deir TEM when I played this scenario.
 

Craig Benn

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Moderately sloped beach - makes the beach and shallow ocean subject to +1 Deir TEM from the hinterland unless the hinterland hexes is adjacent to the beach?
 

jrv

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Ignore the FBs. Don't even bother using the limited AA assets you have on them. They are worth two points a pop, and killing one gets you at most a brief moment of satisfaction because a new set appears next turn. The LVTs are where the CVP are.

Most of the time the LVTs will be on the reef and wading, not moving amphibiously. The Americans will likely hop up onto the reef edge on the first turn; they have the MP (two Amphibious MP out of three for most of the map edge, which leaves many with 4 1⁄3 MP for wading) to make landing (each wading hex is three MP), and a few might even try for ESB on the first turn. The LVT(A)4s will most likely be hoisting themselves out of the water on the first turn so they can stop and place WP in the next turn.

Those units set up at level zero should probably be on the dier lip. There really aren't many good choices further back at ground level anyway. Some of the heavier weapons will be set up above level zero, frequently in caves/pillboxes. As best I understand the caves can't set up on the beach edge on the board 38 because the entrance hex would then be sand, which is n/a.

Remember that the hill on board 38 is covered with kunai, not jungle.

Consider upper level caves.

The CVP cap is how the Japanese win. Shoot LVTs as they enter. Shoot them as they leave. Shoot them on the beaches; shoot them on the landing grounds; shoot them in the fields and in the streets.

JR
 
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Michael R

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Moderately sloped beach - makes the beach and shallow ocean subject to +1 Deir TEM from the hinterland unless the hinterland hexes is adjacent to the beach?
Something else we played wrong. I believe one needs to commit to playing a few beach scenarios in a row to get the most out of the investment in rules learning.
 

jrv

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Something else we played wrong. I believe one needs to commit to playing a few beach scenarios in a row to get the most out of the investment in rules learning.
It probably didn't make a substantial difference. 2U5 might be the best non-lip hinterland hex at ground level, and there are close substitutes on the lip.

JR
 

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When I played this as the Japanese I withheld my fire and stayed concealed/HIP for the first three turns in order to avoid the American FB. It was a disaster for me. The Marines reached the shore in full strength and took my defences apart easily. The Japanese has to be willing to take damage from the FB and inflict as much damage on the Americans while they are in the water. The less Marines that reach the shore is obviously better for the Japanese. Plus of course there is the CVP total.
 

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The Japanese should take whatever passive measures that they can to make the job of the aircraft less easy. They should prefer setting up in terrain that has sighting task check DRM as much as possible. They should use pillboxes and caves for their more valuable weapons where that fits into the the defense. But they should fire on wading LVTs without concern about aircraft. The aircraft, especially the bomb-armed ones, are not a large threat. They can occasionally do damage, but against the more valuable weapons in fortified locations that should be not too common.

JR
 

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Have others found that the USMC end up concentrating on either one side or the other? If so this means half of the IJA setup goes for naught...except for shooting at LVT. So yes absolutely shoot at them. Also isn't there BS and the additional acq for LC entering from off board to counter all the + MODS?
 

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I recall playing this and after the 3rd session chucking it in as the marine players were having no fun at all. Thrir aircraft were extremely ineffective and they ground forwards just getting shot to shīt . If one side is having no fun, we'llchuck it and start again.
 

jrv

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Have others found that the USMC end up concentrating on either one side or the other? If so this means half of the IJA setup goes for naught...except for shooting at LVT. So yes absolutely shoot at them. Also isn't there BS and the additional acq for LC entering from off board to counter all the + MODS?
Why would half the setup go for naught? The guns can shoot at longer range and the infantry have their LPCs to carry them to the sound of the guns. You also have to leave some troops to guard the "unattacked" hill in case the Americans switch to the "capture one hex on each hill" VC. It would be a tricky switch if the Americans committed strongly to one hill or the other, but it can't be entirely discounted.

Bore sighting is n/a in deep ocean, so you can't BS the entry board edge [G13.45]. The first time a gun fires during the game at a watercraft entering from offboard it may consider that the watercraft that is its target has spent 4 MP in LOS and may claim a -1 acqusition [G13.46]. Guns that do that lose any concealment/HIP. I don't think this is enough to warrant shooting at LVTs in deep ocean (and it would apply if the LVT moved up on land too), but I think that is a judgment call.

JR
 
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jrv

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I recall playing this and after the 3rd session chucking it in as the marine players were having no fun at all. Thrir aircraft were extremely ineffective and they ground forwards just getting shot to shīt . If one side is having no fun, we'llchuck it and start again.
The napalm attacks are, IMHO, the most likely to cause substantial results. While the actual attack might even not be that effective (e.g. a hit against a pillbox using the Area Target Type will use the NCA pillbox TEM on the effects DR), the Smoke from the napalm blaze & the random SW destruction when the napalm blaze ends can be the most effective parts of the attack. Depending on what you target, maybe 1-2 regular bomb attacks will actually hit. It's possible you won't hit effectively with any.

The American player has a 99 point CVP cap, and I believe that is how most games will be won by the Japanese. Given that, the American player has to be prepared to be target for a lot of fire. The scenario is also in the "early" style: there is a long development before there's any face-to-face, smash-mouth action, and with some luck for the Japanese it may not even get that far. Then too there are some opportunities for bad strategies that decide the game. I think withholding fire because of concern about the FBs would be one such strategy, but as I have never seen that tried, it is only my opinion.

Because it is a large scenario to set up, especially for the Japanese, I think it requires some preparation that goes beyond just setting up. It may even require playing once to get a feel for the scenario. For these reasons players may be disappointed with how their game went. I think it is probably a good scenario but I also think it requires a lot of effort to get a satisfying result.

JR
 

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Always willing to play this at ASLOK. Plan ahead and I can probably get Jeff DeYoung's 3-D map to use.
 

jrv

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I think it can be a good scenario. It can also go badly. There are some things the players can do to reduce the likelihood of a bad playing, but still no promises.

JR
 

jrv

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One thing that gives the Americans some options during the first few turns is that they can stop the LVT(A)4s on the reef and fire WP at their tormentors. In addition to providing cover, that will force the Japanese to choose between targeting stationary targets with no Passenger CVPs and moving targets with Passengers. The first few turns have more in common with a DTO scenario than with a PTO scenario, with all that implies.

JR
 
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Justiciar

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Also don't forget as the defender you may wish to claim the -1 TH Aq. of G13.46....but might not so as to keep possible "?"/ But if you gun is a PB might as well claim same.
You should be able to also Bore Sight some likely shallow approach hexes G13.45.

I am with JRV, shoot to kill. (I played it many many moons ago).
 

Honza

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The napalm attacks are, IMHO, the most likely to cause substantial results. While the actual attack might even not be that effective (e.g. a hit against a pillbox using the Area Target Type will use the NCA pillbox TEM on the effects DR), the Smoke from the napalm blaze & the random SW destruction when the napalm blaze ends can be the most effective parts of the attack.
Oh oh......I think I have been playing this wrong all these years. Does an ATT attack with napalm really add the NCA pillbox TEM to the resolution DR???? I was thinking that because the napalm is treated as an attack with a FT the TEM is NA.

What about an ATT attack with napalm vs a cave? Is the +6 TEM vs ATT attacks added to the effects DR?
 
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