Big Bad Bocage Blues

Victor

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
970
Reaction score
109
Location
Bolshoy Dom
Country
llUnited States
Gearing up for BtB and revisiting bocage rules.....for the hundredth time. :nuts:

Can one claim Height Advantage from a hill-bocage hex (in absence of any other terrain) to cancel mandatory wall advantage and thus be considerd out of LOS?

Thanks,
Victor
 

Victor

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
970
Reaction score
109
Location
Bolshoy Dom
Country
llUnited States
Part 2

....or does bocage create a plateau effect if the bocage is at one lvl lower elevation....thus there would be no los anyway....???
Victor
 

Robin Reeve

Aka the Swiss Moron
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
17,012
Reaction score
2,458
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Doesn't one apply WA as with hedges or walls?
Here is how I see it...
If the bocage depiction sticks with no intervall (i.e. coincides) with the crestline, it is like a hedge-hill hexside and a unit on the hill could claim WA.
If you can see lower level depiction, you could claim WA if in the lower side of the bocage.
In BtB, I think you find both types of depictions...
 

Victor

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
970
Reaction score
109
Location
Bolshoy Dom
Country
llUnited States
Robin said:
Doesn't one apply WA as with hedges or walls?
Here is how I see it...
If the bocage depiction sticks with no intervall (i.e. coincides) with the crestline, it is like a hedge-hill hexside and a unit on the hill could claim WA.
If you can see lower level depiction, you could claim WA if in the lower side of the bocage.
In BtB, I think you find both types of depictions...
Actually for the case where the bocage is at the same lvl what I'm interested in is whether the must claim WA (mandatory wa) because of no in hex tem. I'm hoping to take advantage of height tem to relieve myself of mandatory wa to stay out of LOS...hope that is clear?

Then if the bocage is actually at lower level by 1 lvl does it create a plateau effect where there would not be los to lower lvl...unless adjacent??

Victor
 

WaterRabbit

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
28
Location
Somewhere
Country
llGreenland
See B9.323 Mandatory WA:

...Neither Emplacement, Gun-shield, Height Advantage, nor a friendly AFV with WA are considered to provide an in-hex TEM for this purpose....

So the answer is no.
 

da priest

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
10
Location
Lebanon, Mo., turn r
Bocage Primer(if wrong tell us!)

Using the example on B10, ASLRBv2.

Well the attempt to insert image was a bust...but open your rulebook...

2 german squads in I6, your move, your conscript Rumanian squad starts in L8 concealed. They march to K8 then J7, they have to take WA and are so marked, notice they do not lose concealment.(?)

Now the fire by Germans is ineffective and you fire at them in AFPh(you miss of course), you lose concealment, still have WA.

CCPh rolls around, you get concealment back, still with WA.
 

Robin Reeve

Aka the Swiss Moron
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
17,012
Reaction score
2,458
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
da priest said:
notice they do not lose concealment.(?)
Hey! That is one I missed! Thanks for the example, Ron! :clap:
I only thought such a unit could GAIN ? while in LOS of a Good Order KEU...

Note also that, if the unit in J7 didn't have WA (e.g. because another one in I8 claimed it before), it would be out of LOS from I6 - there is a "Perry sez" about this...
 

Ole Boe

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,874
Reaction score
10
Location
there...
Country
llNorway
Robin said:
I only thought such a unit could GAIN ? while in LOS of a Good Order KEU...
Picking out the relevant bits of B9.55:
"An Infantry unit receiving ... bocage TEM vs all enemy ... ground units with a LOS to it, ... is treated as being out of all enemy ground LOS for determining ... possible loss of "?" due ... MF expenditures."

So the unit certainly doesn't loose "?" either.

Robin said:
Note also that, if the unit in J7 didn't have WA (e.g. because another one in I8 claimed it before), it would be out of LOS from I6 - there is a "Perry sez" about this...
That's right. I'm thinking of creating an "extensive WA & Bocage" example. I'll see if MMP is interested in printing it...
 

Ole Boe

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,874
Reaction score
10
Location
there...
Country
llNorway
Your WA and Bocage examples are very good Pete. I think there is one error in the Bocage example though. It states that adjacent units has LOS to each other through Bocage regardless of WA status.

I believe that even adjacent units has LOS through Bocage to each other if one (or both) have WA. If none of them have WA, they can only see the other unit's Location, but not the other unit.

Check this thread for a discussion about it.
 
Top