BFP-101 Panzer Spirit AAR

Adrian Carter

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
115
Reaction score
525
Location
Bingen
Country
llGermany
We had had so much fun with our last three Crucible of Steel Kursk scenarios that we decided to play another one, namely BFP-101 Panzer Spirit. Elements of the 169th Tank Brigade of the Russian 2nd Tank Corps were counterattacking the 1. SS-Panzer-Regiment of the 1. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Division near Jamki on 12 July 1943. The Russians attacked with a combined arms force consisting of 4 T-34 M41, 4 T-34 M43 and 1st line infantry armed with machine-guns and anti-tank rifle. The Germans were defending the village with a mixture of 4 Marder III(t)H self-propelled guns (SPG), a 50L AT gun, and Panzergrenadiere armed with some machine-guns. The action was based on the two halves of boards BFP L and 17. The Russians had 6 turns to take 12 or more buildings to win. The ROAR website had recorded 50 Russian wins versus 48 German wins so it appeared both popular and balanced. I attacked with the Russians and Johan defended with the Germans. There was one interesting SSR which we didn’t quite know how to interpret at first, namely that all Marder III(t)H SPGs start with a circled B12. Fortunately, there was an official Q&A for the circled this SSR:

Q. In some scenarios there is a SBR giving some Low Ammo vehicles a "Circled B12." How is this handled?
A. On a 12 the Gun malfunctions and a Low Ammo counter is placed. If the Gun Repairs, it is under Low Ammo and suffers shortage penalties (i.e. X on 12, B on 11).


Many thanks to the folks at Bounding Fire Productions for this clarification!
  • German advantages: 8 ML SS-Panzergrenadiere, AFV crews 9 ML, 75L SPG, concealment
    German disadvantages: Thin armour of the Marder SPGs, few machine guns
  • Russian advantages: 1st line infantry, leadership, 8 T-34s
    Russian advantages: Open ground to cover, only 6 turns
21578
Figure 1 shows the troop dispositions at the start of the game. Originally, I had made the mistake of trying to position my troops on half hexes of board 17 that butted onto board BFP L, but Johan rightly pointed that this was not allowed pursuant to A2.3. It was easily fixed and didn’t change my attack much. I decided to push the bulk of my infantry down the northern and central parts of the maps thereby using the woods and grain as cover. I would start by moving most of my troops with the machine guns marked with Opportunity Fire counters. The T-34 M41s would strike to the south whilst the T-34 M43s would hold back and wait for suitable targets to appear. The Germans appeared to have focused the bulk of their infantry in the village on the western side with token forces upfront and the south. I guessed that some of the German forces in the BFP LX1 building were dummy counters. The Marder SPGs were looking ominous and covering the main areas of open country.

21579
Figure 2 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 3 at one third through the game. The opening turn was deadly for the T-34s. I lost two of them to the Marder SPGs and had to pass my own personal TC to continue. The 75L guns are really deadly if they hit a T-34, especially if they are lucky enough to get APCR. In contrast, once the T-34s can later fire for back (remember all Russian AFVs start in Motion) the Marder SPGs are extremely vulnerable to fire from the 76L gun of the T-34. Consequently, Russian fire had turned two of the Marder SPGs into burning wrecks and a third into a wreck. The frontal armour of the T-34s was relatively impervious to the AP fire of the 50L AT gun unless it rolled snake-eyes and this is exactly what happened to create one Russian burning wreck in BFP L EE2. By this stage, the Germans had only one Marder together with the doughty 50L AT gun in BFP L GG7 that had run out of APCR rounds. The Russian infantry counters were pushing through the middle despite some stout resistance by the German infantry. The Russians had only captured one victory building by this point but still had most the infantry and 5 T-34s still intact. It was time to hustle.

21580
Figure 3 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 5. One of the T-34s had finally neutralized the crew of the 50L AT gun and the remaining T-34s were free to sleaze freeze the Germans in the buildings, thereby helping the Russians to cross the open ground. However, my infantry attack through the grain field had stalled because I decided to move several units in to a CC with the Germans. Another German squad fired into the melee and the ensuing random selection for the K/2 result saw me roll a 5 four times! The ASL Dice gods are very fickle at times. After this I was always going to be behind schedule. In retrospect, I should have spread my troops more and moved round the German defence in the grain field.

21581
Figure 4 shows the positions at the end of Allied turn 6 / start of Axis turn 6. The Russians had only occupied 9 of the required 12 buildings by this stage, and were probably were going to lose control of at least one building in the German turn. I therefore conceded the game. The delay in the grain field had cost me dearly. It was a good win for the Germans! I would definitely play this again with either side; it was a very enjoyable little tussle.

If anyone has other suggestions for tactics, don’t hesitate to post a reply. I’d be very happy to hear of other approaches.
Cheers
 

jimfer

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
875
Reaction score
231
Location
Fort Worth Texas
Country
llUnited States
We had had so much fun with our last three Crucible of Steel Kursk scenarios that we decided to play another one, namely BFP-101 Panzer Spirit. Elements of the 169th Tank Brigade of the Russian 2nd Tank Corps were counterattacking the 1. SS-Panzer-Regiment of the 1. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Division near Jamki on 12 July 1943. The Russians attacked with a combined arms force consisting of 4 T-34 M41, 4 T-34 M43 and 1st line infantry armed with machine-guns and anti-tank rifle. The Germans were defending the village with a mixture of 4 Marder III(t)H self-propelled guns (SPG), a 50L AT gun, and Panzergrenadiere armed with some machine-guns. The action was based on the two halves of boards BFP L and 17. The Russians had 6 turns to take 12 or more buildings to win. The ROAR website had recorded 50 Russian wins versus 48 German wins so it appeared both popular and balanced. I attacked with the Russians and Johan defended with the Germans. There was one interesting SSR which we didn’t quite know how to interpret at first, namely that all Marder III(t)H SPGs start with a circled B12. Fortunately, there was an official Q&A for the circled this SSR:

Q. In some scenarios there is a SBR giving some Low Ammo vehicles a "Circled B12." How is this handled?
A. On a 12 the Gun malfunctions and a Low Ammo counter is placed. If the Gun Repairs, it is under Low Ammo and suffers shortage penalties (i.e. X on 12, B on 11).


Many thanks to the folks at Bounding Fire Productions for this clarification!
  • German advantages: 8 ML SS-Panzergrenadiere, AFV crews 9 ML, 75L SPG, concealment
    German disadvantages: Thin armour of the Marder SPGs, few machine guns
  • Russian advantages: 1st line infantry, leadership, 8 T-34s
    Russian advantages: Open ground to cover, only 6 turns
View attachment 21578
Figure 1 shows the troop dispositions at the start of the game. Originally, I had made the mistake of trying to position my troops on half hexes of board 17 that butted onto board BFP L, but Johan rightly pointed that this was not allowed pursuant to A2.3. It was easily fixed and didn’t change my attack much. I decided to push the bulk of my infantry down the northern and central parts of the maps thereby using the woods and grain as cover. I would start by moving most of my troops with the machine guns marked with Opportunity Fire counters. The T-34 M41s would strike to the south whilst the T-34 M43s would hold back and wait for suitable targets to appear. The Germans appeared to have focused the bulk of their infantry in the village on the western side with token forces upfront and the south. I guessed that some of the German forces in the BFP LX1 building were dummy counters. The Marder SPGs were looking ominous and covering the main areas of open country.

View attachment 21579
Figure 2 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 3 at one third through the game. The opening turn was deadly for the T-34s. I lost two of them to the Marder SPGs and had to pass my own personal TC to continue. The 75L guns are really deadly if they hit a T-34, especially if they are lucky enough to get APCR. In contrast, once the T-34s can later fire for back (remember all Russian AFVs start in Motion) the Marder SPGs are extremely vulnerable to fire from the 76L gun of the T-34. Consequently, Russian fire had turned two of the Marder SPGs into burning wrecks and a third into a wreck. The frontal armour of the T-34s was relatively impervious to the AP fire of the 50L AT gun unless it rolled snake-eyes and this is exactly what happened to create one Russian burning wreck in BFP L EE2. By this stage, the Germans had only one Marder together with the doughty 50L AT gun in BFP L GG7 that had run out of APCR rounds. The Russian infantry counters were pushing through the middle despite some stout resistance by the German infantry. The Russians had only captured one victory building by this point but still had most the infantry and 5 T-34s still intact. It was time to hustle.

View attachment 21580
Figure 3 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 5. One of the T-34s had finally neutralized the crew of the 50L AT gun and the remaining T-34s were free to sleaze freeze the Germans in the buildings, thereby helping the Russians to cross the open ground. However, my infantry attack through the grain field had stalled because I decided to move several units in to a CC with the Germans. Another German squad fired into the melee and the ensuing random selection for the K/2 result saw me roll a 5 four times! The ASL Dice gods are very fickle at times. After this I was always going to be behind schedule. In retrospect, I should have spread my troops more and moved round the German defence in the grain field.

View attachment 21581
Figure 4 shows the positions at the end of Allied turn 6 / start of Axis turn 6. The Russians had only occupied 9 of the required 12 buildings by this stage, and were probably were going to lose control of at least one building in the German turn. I therefore conceded the game. The delay in the grain field had cost me dearly. It was a good win for the Germans! I would definitely play this again with either side; it was a very enjoyable little tussle.

If anyone has other suggestions for tactics, don’t hesitate to post a reply. I’d be very happy to hear of other approaches.
Cheers
Try to win the armor battle quickly. Surviving tanks sleaze the Germans and HUMAN WAVE....to close the deal worked for me once. Also rolling really low works for some people, I need to try that sometime.
 

Adrian Carter

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
115
Reaction score
525
Location
Bingen
Country
llGermany
Try to win the armor battle quickly. Surviving tanks sleaze the Germans and HUMAN WAVE....to close the deal worked for me once. Also rolling really low works for some people, I need to try that sometime.
I tried to win the armor battle quickly but didn't think about the human wave. I also try not to rely on rolling low. It doesn't seem to work for me either ;)
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,381
Reaction score
10,280
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
My apologies for making this off-topic post here - it is not possible to attach pictures to private messages.

Adrian,

for a while I have been thinking about what your avatar reminded me of.

Today I found it:

21644

M153 Haradrim Captain (Mithril Miniatures)
This figure hails from the good old times before the Lord of the Rings was commercialized to the death.

Comparing your avatar to this miniature, it turns out that they are not the same.
Nevertheless and out of interest: Am I close to the mark?

von Marwitz
 

Adrian Carter

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
115
Reaction score
525
Location
Bingen
Country
llGermany
My apologies for making this off-topic post here - it is not possible to attach pictures to private messages.

Adrian,

for a while I have been thinking about what your avatar reminded me of.

Today I found it:

View attachment 21644

M153 Haradrim Captain (Mithril Miniatures)
This figure hails from the good old times before the Lord of the Rings was commercialized to the death.

Comparing your avatar to this miniature, it turns out that they are not the same.
Nevertheless and out of interest: Am I close to the mark?

von Marwitz
Von Marwitz,

No worries. My figure is a 28 mm Moorish command figure purchased from Gripping Beast Miniatures. The figure was part of my Moorish SAGA war band for the Reconquista extension. I painted it myself complete with little dots and washes. You can see the shield of a Berber spearman in the background.
I used to play SAGA with the Kurpfalzherren in Heidelberg.
Adrian
 

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
4,649
Reaction score
3,264
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
We had had so much fun with our last three Crucible of Steel Kursk scenarios that we decided to play another one, namely BFP-101 Panzer Spirit. Elements of the 169th Tank Brigade of the Russian 2nd Tank Corps were counterattacking the 1. SS-Panzer-Regiment of the 1. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Division near Jamki on 12 July 1943. The Russians attacked with a combined arms force consisting of 4 T-34 M41, 4 T-34 M43 and 1st line infantry armed with machine-guns and anti-tank rifle. The Germans were defending the village with a mixture of 4 Marder III(t)H self-propelled guns (SPG), a 50L AT gun, and Panzergrenadiere armed with some machine-guns. The action was based on the two halves of boards BFP L and 17. The Russians had 6 turns to take 12 or more buildings to win. The ROAR website had recorded 50 Russian wins versus 48 German wins so it appeared both popular and balanced. I attacked with the Russians and Johan defended with the Germans. There was one interesting SSR which we didn’t quite know how to interpret at first, namely that all Marder III(t)H SPGs start with a circled B12. Fortunately, there was an official Q&A for the circled this SSR:

Q. In some scenarios there is a SBR giving some Low Ammo vehicles a "Circled B12." How is this handled?
A. On a 12 the Gun malfunctions and a Low Ammo counter is placed. If the Gun Repairs, it is under Low Ammo and suffers shortage penalties (i.e. X on 12, B on 11).


Many thanks to the folks at Bounding Fire Productions for this clarification!
  • German advantages: 8 ML SS-Panzergrenadiere, AFV crews 9 ML, 75L SPG, concealment
    German disadvantages: Thin armour of the Marder SPGs, few machine guns
  • Russian advantages: 1st line infantry, leadership, 8 T-34s
    Russian advantages: Open ground to cover, only 6 turns
View attachment 21578
Figure 1 shows the troop dispositions at the start of the game. Originally, I had made the mistake of trying to position my troops on half hexes of board 17 that butted onto board BFP L, but Johan rightly pointed that this was not allowed pursuant to A2.3. It was easily fixed and didn’t change my attack much. I decided to push the bulk of my infantry down the northern and central parts of the maps thereby using the woods and grain as cover. I would start by moving most of my troops with the machine guns marked with Opportunity Fire counters. The T-34 M41s would strike to the south whilst the T-34 M43s would hold back and wait for suitable targets to appear. The Germans appeared to have focused the bulk of their infantry in the village on the western side with token forces upfront and the south. I guessed that some of the German forces in the BFP LX1 building were dummy counters. The Marder SPGs were looking ominous and covering the main areas of open country.

View attachment 21579
Figure 2 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 3 at one third through the game. The opening turn was deadly for the T-34s. I lost two of them to the Marder SPGs and had to pass my own personal TC to continue. The 75L guns are really deadly if they hit a T-34, especially if they are lucky enough to get APCR. In contrast, once the T-34s can later fire for back (remember all Russian AFVs start in Motion) the Marder SPGs are extremely vulnerable to fire from the 76L gun of the T-34. Consequently, Russian fire had turned two of the Marder SPGs into burning wrecks and a third into a wreck. The frontal armour of the T-34s was relatively impervious to the AP fire of the 50L AT gun unless it rolled snake-eyes and this is exactly what happened to create one Russian burning wreck in BFP L EE2. By this stage, the Germans had only one Marder together with the doughty 50L AT gun in BFP L GG7 that had run out of APCR rounds. The Russian infantry counters were pushing through the middle despite some stout resistance by the German infantry. The Russians had only captured one victory building by this point but still had most the infantry and 5 T-34s still intact. It was time to hustle.

View attachment 21580
Figure 3 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 5. One of the T-34s had finally neutralized the crew of the 50L AT gun and the remaining T-34s were free to sleaze freeze the Germans in the buildings, thereby helping the Russians to cross the open ground. However, my infantry attack through the grain field had stalled because I decided to move several units in to a CC with the Germans. Another German squad fired into the melee and the ensuing random selection for the K/2 result saw me roll a 5 four times! The ASL Dice gods are very fickle at times. After this I was always going to be behind schedule. In retrospect, I should have spread my troops more and moved round the German defence in the grain field.

View attachment 21581
Figure 4 shows the positions at the end of Allied turn 6 / start of Axis turn 6. The Russians had only occupied 9 of the required 12 buildings by this stage, and were probably were going to lose control of at least one building in the German turn. I therefore conceded the game. The delay in the grain field had cost me dearly. It was a good win for the Germans! I would definitely play this again with either side; it was a very enjoyable little tussle.

If anyone has other suggestions for tactics, don’t hesitate to post a reply. I’d be very happy to hear of other approaches.
Cheers
Nice ARR, tanks. I lost this one as the Russian to Bret Hildebran. He had a marder in the aforementioned graveyard behind the wall that trashed my attack with never ending HE. They have only HE8 (I think) and Bret never ran out of HE so basically every shot was a nasty hit. I thought I could shoot the open top crews but it didn’t work out that way.That’s my ARR, lol.
 
Last edited:

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
4,649
Reaction score
3,264
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
We had had so much fun with our last three Crucible of Steel Kursk scenarios that we decided to play another one, namely BFP-101 Panzer Spirit. Elements of the 169th Tank Brigade of the Russian 2nd Tank Corps were counterattacking the 1. SS-Panzer-Regiment of the 1. SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Division near Jamki on 12 July 1943. The Russians attacked with a combined arms force consisting of 4 T-34 M41, 4 T-34 M43 and 1st line infantry armed with machine-guns and anti-tank rifle. The Germans were defending the village with a mixture of 4 Marder III(t)H self-propelled guns (SPG), a 50L AT gun, and Panzergrenadiere armed with some machine-guns. The action was based on the two halves of boards BFP L and 17. The Russians had 6 turns to take 12 or more buildings to win. The ROAR website had recorded 50 Russian wins versus 48 German wins so it appeared both popular and balanced. I attacked with the Russians and Johan defended with the Germans. There was one interesting SSR which we didn’t quite know how to interpret at first, namely that all Marder III(t)H SPGs start with a circled B12. Fortunately, there was an official Q&A for the circled this SSR:

Q. In some scenarios there is a SBR giving some Low Ammo vehicles a "Circled B12." How is this handled?
A. On a 12 the Gun malfunctions and a Low Ammo counter is placed. If the Gun Repairs, it is under Low Ammo and suffers shortage penalties (i.e. X on 12, B on 11).


Many thanks to the folks at Bounding Fire Productions for this clarification!
  • German advantages: 8 ML SS-Panzergrenadiere, AFV crews 9 ML, 75L SPG, concealment
    German disadvantages: Thin armour of the Marder SPGs, few machine guns
  • Russian advantages: 1st line infantry, leadership, 8 T-34s
    Russian advantages: Open ground to cover, only 6 turns
View attachment 21578
Figure 1 shows the troop dispositions at the start of the game. Originally, I had made the mistake of trying to position my troops on half hexes of board 17 that butted onto board BFP L, but Johan rightly pointed that this was not allowed pursuant to A2.3. It was easily fixed and didn’t change my attack much. I decided to push the bulk of my infantry down the northern and central parts of the maps thereby using the woods and grain as cover. I would start by moving most of my troops with the machine guns marked with Opportunity Fire counters. The T-34 M41s would strike to the south whilst the T-34 M43s would hold back and wait for suitable targets to appear. The Germans appeared to have focused the bulk of their infantry in the village on the western side with token forces upfront and the south. I guessed that some of the German forces in the BFP LX1 building were dummy counters. The Marder SPGs were looking ominous and covering the main areas of open country.

View attachment 21579
Figure 2 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 3 at one third through the game. The opening turn was deadly for the T-34s. I lost two of them to the Marder SPGs and had to pass my own personal TC to continue. The 75L guns are really deadly if they hit a T-34, especially if they are lucky enough to get APCR. In contrast, once the T-34s can later fire for back (remember all Russian AFVs start in Motion) the Marder SPGs are extremely vulnerable to fire from the 76L gun of the T-34. Consequently, Russian fire had turned two of the Marder SPGs into burning wrecks and a third into a wreck. The frontal armour of the T-34s was relatively impervious to the AP fire of the 50L AT gun unless it rolled snake-eyes and this is exactly what happened to create one Russian burning wreck in BFP L EE2. By this stage, the Germans had only one Marder together with the doughty 50L AT gun in BFP L GG7 that had run out of APCR rounds. The Russian infantry counters were pushing through the middle despite some stout resistance by the German infantry. The Russians had only captured one victory building by this point but still had most the infantry and 5 T-34s still intact. It was time to hustle.

View attachment 21580
Figure 3 shows the positions at the start of Allied turn 5. One of the T-34s had finally neutralized the crew of the 50L AT gun and the remaining T-34s were free to sleaze freeze the Germans in the buildings, thereby helping the Russians to cross the open ground. However, my infantry attack through the grain field had stalled because I decided to move several units in to a CC with the Germans. Another German squad fired into the melee and the ensuing random selection for the K/2 result saw me roll a 5 four times! The ASL Dice gods are very fickle at times. After this I was always going to be behind schedule. In retrospect, I should have spread my troops more and moved round the German defence in the grain field.

View attachment 21581
Figure 4 shows the positions at the end of Allied turn 6 / start of Axis turn 6. The Russians had only occupied 9 of the required 12 buildings by this stage, and were probably were going to lose control of at least one building in the German turn. I therefore conceded the game. The delay in the grain field had cost me dearly. It was a good win for the Germans! I would definitely play this again with either side; it was a very enjoyable little tussle.

If anyone has other suggestions for tactics, don’t hesitate to post a reply. I’d be very happy to hear of other approaches.
Cheers
Your attack on turn 3 was doing good, what would you do differently? I thought you were going to win.
I thought, What is the better way ? Engage along the whole line or attack on a narrower front (flank) to engage less Germans and concentrate firepower, isolating the spread out Germans ? Maybe two equal schools of thought but which is best in this situation ? Just pondering... because I tried the (Russian) right flank attack that seemed to be doing good then it just fell apart.
 
Last edited:

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
993
Reaction score
569
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
I would try to set up all marders concealed (imposible on graveyard) and more than 6 away from Soviet set up. The +2 and the concealed CA is very important, i think. Otherwise, a bounding firing (stopped) platoon can exchange, at the very beggining of movement phase 1st turn, a T34 (hit on a 8, killed 5/6) for a few (4 or 6) shots that need a to hit of 5 (and that's the APCR number of soviet 76L). That's, stop platoon, take only one shot, shot a lot with a 5 to hit, first APCR, AP if you are not lucky. If your opponent can see the CA of your TD, every 4 T34 will get a lone/not supporting Marder with just a bit of luck (other marders could hepl in that shoot out, but if they have to change CA and/or take hindrances, the chances for a hit drop dramatically, and the enemy is in motion, they can close and you cannot then try a motion attempt after shooting, and that -2 for distance is horrible, not forgetting also a 6+2 against the crew) . And 17Tk to 11 hull AF is more or less the same chances to be hit by the platoon bounding fire, and if hit, the Marders stand little chane.... Also, if you set up unconcealed, the Soviets can chance a Fire group to stun a Marderin prepfire, and that mean death in the MPh. Maybe I am wrong, but its just my 2 cents
 
Last edited:

Adrian Carter

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
115
Reaction score
525
Location
Bingen
Country
llGermany
Your attack on turn 3 was doing good, what would you do differently? I thought you were going to win.
I thought, What is the better way ? Engage along the whole line or attack on a narrower front (flank) to engage less Germans and concentrate firepower, isolating the spread out Germans ? Maybe two equal schools of thought but which is best in this situation ? Just pondering... because I tried the (Russian) right flank attack that seemed to be doing good then it just fell apart.
Yep, I thought I was doing well until I moved three Russian squads into the same hex and paid the price of some unlucky dice rolling.
 

Adrian Carter

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
115
Reaction score
525
Location
Bingen
Country
llGermany
I would try to set up all marders concealed (imposible on graveyard) and more than 6 away from Soviet set up. The +2 and the concealed CA is very important, i think. Otherwise, a bounding firing (stopped) platoon can exchange, at the very beggining of movement phase 1st turn, a T34 (hit on a 8, killed 5/6) for a few (4 or 6) shots that need a to hit of 5 (and that's the APCR number of soviet 76L). That's, stop platoon, take only one shot, shot a lot with a 5 to hit, first APCR, AP if you are not lucky. If your opponent can see the CA of your TD, every 4 T34 will get a lone/not supporting Marder with just a bit of luck (other marders could hepl in that shoot out, but if they have to change CA and/or take hindrances, the chances for a hit drop dramatically, and the enemy is in motion, they can close and you cannot then try a motion attempt after shooting, and that -2 for distance is horrible, not forgetting also a 6+2 against the crew) . And 17Tk to 11 hull AF is more or less the same chances to be hit by the platoon bounding fire, and if hit, the Marders stand little chane.... Also, if you set up unconcealed, the Soviets can chance a Fire group to stun a Marderin prepfire, and that mean death in the MPh. Maybe I am wrong, but its just my 2 cents
Interesting thoughts. The Marders really are best when ambushing AFVs from a concealed or HD position. They're far too vulnerable to go toe-to-toe with the T-34s.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,381
Reaction score
10,280
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
The Marders really are best when ambushing AFVs from a concealed or HD position. They're far too vulnerable to go toe-to-toe with the T-34s.
Well, this is exactly what they have historically been designed for:
Ambushing enemy armor from concealed and/or HD positions, then switching positions - all this at cheap cost and low production complexity.
Turretless, thin skinned, and their crew only partially protected by armor, they can't stand up maneuvering to tanks.

von Marwitz
 
Top