Berserk Ambush DRM

jyoung

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
371
Reaction score
442
Country
llAustralia
Just confirming my understanding (or not?). Berserk unit gets +2 DRM in ambush, +1 for being Berserk, and +1 for being Lax (as Berserk units are automatically Lax). Correct?
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,208
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Just confirming my understanding (or not?). Berserk unit gets +2 DRM in ambush, +1 for being Berserk, and +1 for being Lax (as Berserk units are automatically Lax). Correct?
Yes, this is my understanding.

Those Zerkers are not exactly known for their subtlety...

von Marwitz
 

jyoung

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
371
Reaction score
442
Country
llAustralia
Thanks Herr Oberst.
Not that it matters in practice - my regular opponent has the wood over me when it comes to ambush, whether I have a 2 DRM advantage or not, the outcome is usually the same. I think it's a reverse quantum effect - instead of a superposition of all possible outcomes, there is actually only one possible outcome, and when we measure it by rolling the dice, the waveform collapse just forces the dice to be what they had to be to achieve the inevitable...
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,208
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Thanks Herr Oberst.
Not that it matters in practice - my regular opponent has the wood over me when it comes to ambush, whether I have a 2 DRM advantage or not, the outcome is usually the same. I think it's a reverse quantum effect - instead of a superposition of all possible outcomes, there is actually only one possible outcome, and when we measure it by rolling the dice, the waveform collapse just forces the dice to be what they had to be to achieve the inevitable...
Maybe if you roll Ynkelonium-Terkonite coated dice in an anti-matter environment, you might be able to reverse the reverse quantum effect. Make sure though, not to be destroyed yourself by anti-matter. Perhaps you can ask an Accalaurie-buddy to handle the rolling.

von Marwitz
 

JR Brackin

Cardboard Challanged
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
574
Location
North of Philly
Country
llUnited States
However it is rare that Berserkers are involved in an Ambush. When they enter the opponents hex they are marked with a CC counter signifying that they did not Advance in (see the first line of A11.4 - Infantry must Advance into CC unless reinforcing for an Ambush to occur).

So for a Berserk unit to be in Ambush another unit would have to Advance into the hex - that means that both units would be subject to the modifiers for Ambush.
 

aneil1234

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
451
Reaction score
164
Location
an Aussie in Falmouth, Cornwall
Country
llUnited Kingdom
As JR said
As they are already at the scene of the carnage, so the ""Ambush"" step is not often a real problem
It is when the Carnage comes to them that its a problem for the ""Zerkies""
Killing them by attacking them in CC is one of the ""Possibly"" EASIER ways of dealing with them
Not that it's ever easier dealing with them
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,596
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
So for a Berserk unit to be in Ambush another unit would have to Advance into the hex - that means that both units would be subject to the modifiers for Ambush.
It can also be an opposing unit advancing during the APh of the next player Turn (an even rarer occurrence).
 

jyoung

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
371
Reaction score
442
Country
llAustralia
The circumstance was a concealed unit assault moving then advancing in after the defender had been "frozen" by the berserker moving into CC. Easier to accomplish with Banzai charge, much less likely with berserkers I guess, but anything can and will happen in the dense urban terrain of Red Barricades.
 

Juzek

Steve Kyle
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
383
Reaction score
145
Location
Yardley, PA
Country
llUnited States
As JR said
As they are already at the scene of the carnage, so the ""Ambush"" step is not often a real problem
It is when the Carnage comes to them that its a problem for the ""Zerkies""
Killing them by attacking them in CC is one of the ""Possibly"" EASIER ways of dealing with them
Not that it's ever easier dealing with them
One thing I tried when I knew zerk would be moving into one of my hexes is I moved all my units that could have been targets away, but adjacent to the hex he would charge, leaving him only the choice of a weak unit he would probably kill. Once the zerker went back to normal after his CC, my adjacent units would shoot him up in my next fire phase. Unfortunately I don't remember if it worked. Special circumstances to set that up though.
 

jyoung

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
371
Reaction score
442
Country
llAustralia
In a brain explosion recently I left a concealed unit <edit: with another unconcealed unit> in a building hex waiting for a zerker, thinking about all the ambush advantages I would get, forgetting that (a) they would lose concealment when the zerker moved in, and (b) even if they didn't, they would be forced to fire when the zerker moved in, thus losing concealment, and (c) no ambush since no advance. It didn't work out well, they were broken by the zerker's in-hex advancing fire. "Luckily" they were able to rout out and upstairs, only to be encircled and eventually surrender.
 
Last edited:

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
4,630
Reaction score
3,244
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
In a brain explosion recently I left a concealed unit in a building hex waiting for a zerker, thinking about all the ambush advantages I would get, forgetting that (a) they would lose concealment when the zerker moved in, and (b) even if they didn't, they would be forced to fire when the zerker moved in, thus losing concealment, and (c) no ambush since no advance. It didn't work out well, they were broken by the zerker's in-hex advancing fire. "Luckily" they were able to rout out and upstairs, only to be encircled and eventually surrender.
Berserkers charge the nearest know enemy unit, das tut meir laud.
 
Last edited:

T34

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
144
Reaction score
204
Location
Nans Sous Sainte Anne, Doubs
First name
Tim
Country
llFrance
However it is rare that Berserkers are involved in an Ambush. When they enter the opponents hex they are marked with a CC counter signifying that they did not Advance in (see the first line of A11.4 - Infantry must Advance into CC unless reinforcing for an Ambush to occur).

So for a Berserk unit to be in Ambush another unit would have to Advance into the hex - that means that both units would be subject to the modifiers for Ambush.
Yes, but who doesn't want to advance into CC with a Berserker in order to ambush and kill it, scratching it off your bucket list?
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
117
Reaction score
87
Location
Malaga, Spain
First name
Ricardo
Country
llSpain
In a brain explosion recently I left a concealed unit <edit: with another unconcealed unit> in a building hex waiting for a zerker, thinking about all the ambush advantages I would get, forgetting that (a) they would lose concealment when the zerker moved in, and (b) even if they didn't, they would be forced to fire when the zerker moved in, thus losing concealment, and (c) no ambush since no advance. It didn't work out well, they were broken by the zerker's in-hex advancing fire. "Luckily" they were able to rout out and upstairs, only to be encircled and eventually surrender.
But they wouldn’t lose concealment, detection is made by ”non-berserk units” entering the hex (A12.15).
 
Reactions: T34

jyoung

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
371
Reaction score
442
Country
llAustralia
But they'd still need to fire when the hex was entered, wouldn't they?
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,208
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
But they'd still need to fire when the hex was entered, wouldn't they?
Yes. The Berserker has to be fired at - with FPF if other fire opportunities are already exhausted.

A15.432 A berserk unit must enter a Known enemy occupied Location during the MPh if it has sufficient MF and, as such, may possibly force any DEFENDING Infantry therein to attack them with FPF. If the only Known enemy unit is a lone SMC, a berserk MMC will immediately conduct an Infantry OVR (4.15) with neither the NTC nor increased MF normally required and without the option of the SMC entering a new hex. The berserk unit may also attack with TPBF during its AFPh, but this TPBF is halved due to taking place in the AFPh. Survivors are not yet held in Melee, and the stack is marked with a CC counter to indicate this. Because a berserk unit must charge in its MPh, it may never fire during its PFPh—even if ADJACENT to the Location it must charge. However, it may fire during its AFPh (not Opportunity Fire) and DFPh/opponent's MPh. A berserk unit does not take prisoners. Berserk units are always Lax (11.18) in CC.

von Marwitz
 
Reactions: T34

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,208
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Yes, but if there are no other known enemy units in sight, the concealed units would not lose concealment after firing since berserk units are not good order units.
There is, however, the chance that the Berserkers' TPBF (EDIT: Halved vs. Concealed, halved again during the AFPh) might unconceal them.

von Marwitz
 
Last edited:
Top