Beach14.234 assault- what is meant by "as soon as possible"?

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#1
Rule G14.231 stipulates that all passengers must attempt to unload from a beached landing craft "as soon as possible".
Rule G14.234 states that PRC that are forced to unload may do so at any time during but must do so before the end of the current or a subsequent friendly MPH (whichever is possible first).
It later goes on to say that units need not unload as a single stack just to comply with the ASAP requirement.

Suppose that a LC with a ramp containing three squads beaches during an assault and has one quarter of its movement points remaining. It is therefore possible for all three squads to unload as a stack before the end of their current MPH using the remaining quarter of their MF. Do they have to do this?
 
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#2
My regular VASL opponent and I just started playing a string of Seaborne Assault scenarios to learn the G12/13/14 rules. We interpreted it that, since they have the ability to unload with their last MF, that they had to because it is possible to do it in the current MPh. They don't have to unload as a stack but can if they wanted to.
 

jrv

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#3
My regular VASL opponent and I just started playing a string of Seaborne Assault scenarios to learn the G12/13/14 rules. We interpreted it that, since they have the ability to unload with their last MF, that they had to because it is possible to do it in the current MPh. They don't have to unload as a stack but can if they wanted to.
This sounds pretty reasonable. The vehicle has to spend its last MP unloading, but need not unload all the infantry on board as a stack if that is not wanted. Note that if the infantry did not unload as a stack, the remainder would remain loaded on the vehicle until the next MPh.

JR
 

hongkongwargamer

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#4
Yup .. please see G14.234 that addresses specifically the definition of "ASAP"

14.234 "ASAP": Within all otherwise-applicable restrictions (e.g., those conferred by the presence of a Recall/TI/Shock counter), PRC forced to Abandon/unload "as soon as possible" (even as per D5.341) may do so at any time during, but must do so before the end of, the current or a subsequent friendly MPh (whichever is possible first) [EXC: if broken at the start of a RtPh, they would have to Abandon/unload in that RtPh]. Units need not unload as a single stack just to comply with the "ASAP" requirement, but while still aboard the vehicle they and it are prohibited from performing (or even attempting) any activity [EXC: Manhandling] that would (or possibly could) delay/prevent them from debarking at the required time.
 
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#5
This sounds pretty reasonable. The vehicle has to spend its last MP unloading, but need not unload all the infantry on board as a stack if that is not wanted. Note that if the infantry did not unload as a stack, the remainder would remain loaded on the vehicle until the next MPh.

JR
Uh-oh, I think we played that wrong then. While we were charging each individual unit 25% to unload into its beached hex, we were not charging the LC 25% for each unit it unloaded, but just once per LC if all the units were unloading in the same MPh. Looking at the (un)loading rule again in G12.4, it does mention that LC's unload like vehicles unless otherwise noted and refers back to D6.5, and D6.5 says that the vehicle (LC) is charged 25% "per disembarking stack". So for a beached LC with 4 original MP's and only 1 MP left it its current MPh, it could unload just one time using its last MP, and whether the unloading consists of one or more units is up to the player? While they don't have to unload as a stack to comply with the "ASAP" requirement, they can't do anything else while onboard the LC and must continue to unload in their following MPh with 1 MP charged to the LC per "stack" unloaded?

As a bit of an aside, is it just me or are the LC/Beach/Seaborne assault rules a jumbled mess? We are on our second beach landing scenario and, while they have been great fun so far, it has been a real battle looking through G12/13/14 to find pertinent rules.
 

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#6
Uh-oh, I think we played that wrong then. While we were charging each individual unit 25% to unload into its beached hex, we were not charging the LC 25% for each unit it unloaded, but just once per LC if all the units were unloading in the same MPh. Looking at the (un)loading rule again in G12.4, it does mention that LC's unload like vehicles unless otherwise noted and refers back to D6.5, and D6.5 says that the vehicle (LC) is charged 25% "per disembarking stack". So for a beached LC with 4 original MP's and only 1 MP left it its current MPh, it could unload just one time using its last MP, and whether the unloading consists of one or more units is up to the player? While they don't have to unload as a stack to comply with the "ASAP" requirement, they can't do anything else while onboard the LC and must continue to unload in their following MPh with 1 MP charged to the LC per "stack" unloaded?
Oh - there we go - thanks for picking up that detail! I am not sure if we played it right either.
 

jrv

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#7
If more than one stack unloads from a vehicle, each stack unloaded costs the vehicle 25% of its MP allotment. During a given turn a vehicle can unload only four different stacks. That is important for something like a LCT, which has 540pp of capacity. If it was carrying only SMCs, and if each SMC unloaded by itself, the LCT would take 136 turns to unload.

JR
 

jrv

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#8
As a bit of an aside, is it just me or are the LC/Beach/Seaborne assault rules a jumbled mess? We are on our second beach landing scenario and, while they have been great fun so far, it has been a real battle looking through G12/13/14 to find pertinent rules.
I am not sure I would characterize them as a jumbled mess, but there are a lot of rules, and it can be hard to find the one you need right now. On the other hand I think any re-organization might make some rules easier to find but would then make others harder to find. Since you have a fair amount of experience you might give it a try. There have been one or two attempts to put LC damage into a flow chart, for instance, and the result of that (to my mind) was complicated flow charts (that had errors). It's not clear to me how you would make the rules easier to consume, although I encourage anyone with a possible idea to have a go.

JR
 
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#10
If more than one stack unloads from a vehicle, each stack unloaded costs the vehicle 25% of its MP allotment. During a given turn a vehicle can unload only four different stacks. That is important for something like a LCT, which has 540pp of capacity. If it was carrying only SMCs, and if each SMC unloaded by itself, the LCT would take 136 turns to unload.

JR
We definitely did it wrong then. There's another wave of Americans coming ashore in a different D-Day scenario than the first one we played...will get it right this time!
 
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#11
I am not sure I would characterize them as a jumbled mess, but there are a lot of rules, and it can be hard to find the one you need right now. On the other hand I think any re-organization might make some rules easier to find but would then make others harder to find. Since you have a fair amount of experience you might give it a try. There have been one or two attempts to put LC damage into a flow chart, for instance, and the result of that (to my mind) was complicated flow charts (that had errors). It's not clear to me how you would make the rules easier to consume, although I encourage anyone with a possible idea to have a go.

JR
I'm sure that's one of those things that its easier to gripe about than actually do something to fix. I mentioned to my friend that, since we are planning on playing several beach landing scenarios in a row to try to get a handle on the rules, I was tempted to go though them and try to come up with a simplified version with only the things applicable to the particular scenario that we were playing. I may still try something like that, but get the feeling that after messing with it for awhile, I'll say this is harder than I thought and give up on it!

We are into our second landing scenario, and for the first time had DPs inflicted on a LC. It actually was destroyed in shallow water, and we were both pretty excited about it for getting a chance to get into a new section of the rules...even though it was his LC that was destroyed!
 

buser333

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#12
I'm sure that's one of those things that its easier to gripe about than actually do something to fix. I mentioned to my friend that, since we are planning on playing several beach landing scenarios in a row to try to get a handle on the rules, I was tempted to go though them and try to come up with a simplified version with only the things applicable to the particular scenario that we were playing. I may still try something like that, but get the feeling that after messing with it for awhile, I'll say this is harder than I thought and give up on it!

We are into our second landing scenario, and for the first time had DPs inflicted on a LC. It actually was destroyed in shallow water, and we were both pretty excited about it for getting a chance to get into a new section of the rules...even though it was his LC that was destroyed!
OK that was eye opening about the 25% per stack. Good catch, Scott. Good thing we didn't start unloading in Game 2 yet.
 
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#13
Have to thank JR for pointing it out above.

And Jeff, you have to note that I only find rules we played wrong when said rule will turn around and benefit me when we play it correct in our current match!:dontknow