Bd21 Graveyard = Valley?

[Cpl Uhl]

Is the Bd21 Graveyard a Valley? I've never played it that way, but a relatively new player read the rules and thought it was.

B18.1 "Any hex containing gray/white rectangular shapes...is considered a graveyard hex." No mention of the darker green "ground", which is typically used (Bd21, Bd41, Bd46, Hatten...)

B22.1 "A valley is depicted by dark green background in obvious contrast to the lighter green used to represent ground level Open Ground on the same board."

Has there ever been an official indication of the Bd21 graveyard (and/or others) NOT being a valley?

 

[Cpl Uhl]

Just to add that graveyards in valleys are a bad idea....

 

[von Marwitz]

Is the Bd21 Graveyard a Valley? I've never played it that way, but a relatively new player read the rules and thought it was.

Nah, it is normal ground level - despite many people there lie 6 feet under.

I agree that by the coloring one could be misled to believe that it were a Depression, but never ever have I seen or heard of it being played that way. IMHO the context of the grave stones artwork in combination with the coloring of green make it usually quite easy along with the other terrain context around to determine the level in which the graveyard is supposed to be.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

Unless you consider that all graveyards are valleys, as the colour is the same on all maps, they are not.

 

[Larry]

For what it is worth, the VASL elves treat the graveyard as at level 0, not -1.

Burying people in a depression where water accumulates is also a very bad idea.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Nah, it is normal ground level - despite many people there lie 6 feet under.

I agree that by the coloring one could be misled to believe that it were a Depression, but never ever have I seen or heard of it being played that way. IMHO the context of the grave stones artwork in combination with the coloring of green make it usually quite easy along with the other terrain context around to determine the level in which the graveyard is supposed to be.

von Marwitz

Well I guess even grognards can learn something from the FNGs. Yup, by rule Graveyards exist at a lower level (though I must admit in 30+ years of playing many different opponents of all calibers of experience I've never seen them treated as such). As all ASLers know, reality arguments have very little credence in game rules/play, so the functionality of graveyards at a lower elevation is a moot point. There is simply no part of B18 GRAVEYARDS that would suggest otherwise and B22 VALLEY (as well as associated rules for Gullies, streams, etc.) would seem to indicate that the darker colored background indicate a lower elevation. I guess we've all(?) been playing these terrain depictions incorrectly like...forever. Perhaps SSRs are in order to bring the old scenarios up to date and a warning to map developers on how to depict same-level graveyards in future releases are in order.

 

[Philippe Briaux]

If Graveyard hex was also a valley (and everybody here knows it is not), then the dark green depiction would be slightly also in the adjacent level 0 hexes for LOS purpose. And this is shown in B22.

 

[Cpl Uhl]

Good, seems that we all play it the same.

 

[von Marwitz]

Yup, by rule Graveyards exist at a lower level (though I must admit in 30+ years of playing many different opponents of all calibers of experience I've never seen them treated as such).

So Eagle4ty, soaring up high, is leading us to the brink of the abyss after those 30+ years.
Should we be surprised? After all, why shouldn't Graveyards, being the gateway to the underworld, not lay deeper than the surrounding terrain?

Of course, we could with a revolutionary argument that runs like this:
The combination of 'valley-green" with tombstones is a Graveyard - which is not a Depression by the rules. So in case we should come across a Graveyard in a valley, the Graveyard hexes would actually rise to Level 0.

With some morbid humor, you could say: Gotta think out of the 'box'...

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

If Graveyard hex was also a valley (and everybody here knows it is not), then the dark green depiction would be slightly also in the adjacent level 0 hexes for LOS purpose. And this is shown in B22.

Nailed it.
One of the aspects of a valley is lacking in the Graveyard depiction.