Battle of Britain idea

[Kraut]

At the moment we have this pretty artificial 50/50 event of whether BoB will succeed or not, but wouldn't it be a lot nicer if german Me109/FW190 and british Hurricane and Spitfire would actually fight it out the way it is supposed to be to determine whether the Luftwaffe will gain air superiority or not? Well, with the current air model this isn't possible because both sides build so many planes that it's almost impossible to run out of replacements.

My idea is as follows: place a few hundred planes of a unique type with no replacements in an air unit and place this unit yellow striped at the southern tip of england (out of naval bombardment range). Now, the trigger of a successfull BoB would be the destruction of this unit. If the allied wants to prevent this he has to keep his fighters at home to protect the BoB trigger instead of sending them all to NA as it is often done now. And if the axis want's the BoB bonus he has to fly airfield attacks, trying to evaporate the BoB trigger unit.

What do you say ?

 

[Mark Stevens]

Sounds a bit complicated to me. Although it's very hard to destroy air units, because the units are generally high proficiency and so many go back into the replacement pool, a constant series of successful air superiority battles by the German, coupled with airstrikes on the UK air bases, could keep several units 'oranged-out', which is the best the Luftwaffe could possibly have achieved. Half the point of gaining air superiority was to hamper the Royal Navy's intervention when the invasion began - in fact it was the prerequisite for the attempt even being made - but the whole naval side of the game isn't modelled very well in TOAW anyway, so it's a bit academic.

We could try erecting a number of 'radar stations' along the southern coast and if one's destroyed the German BoB victory is triggered, but the mechanics would take some thinking about.

 

[SkyVon]

Another option, which requires those precious events, is to have a TO or two for each side allowing the player to remove air units which would increase or decrease (if one side uses more TO's than the other side) those 50/50 odds. If your side wins BoB, you get those planes back (or most of them), if you lose BoB....

I don't really see a viable choice here.

 

[Siberian HEAT]

I think the biggest problem about the BoB is irregardless of who wins it...the Germans still cannot successfully land in England. I would bet most players try the BoB TO with the hopes of getting the extra transport to use in the Med or somewhere else.

When was the last time anyone took out England?

 

[Mark Stevens]

Remember that even a campaign that 'only' knocks out London will reduce the Allied replacement schedule by 20% for about eighteen months - London was the major port in Europe at the time, and although British heavy industry was concentrated in the Midlands, there was a substantial amount in the south, plus the disruption to government, communications and morale would have been crippling.

I know the dangers of the US entering, or the USSR being able to declare war, plus the hordes of little volunteer units that spring up, but I still think that the Axis player doesn't only have to think in terms of "Can I knock out the UK for good?" when considering an invasion.

 

[Kraut]

Well, from what I heard the german strategy during the BoB was at first to knock out the airfields and I heard some RAF veterans that due to this the RAF was alomst at it's breaking point when all of a sudden the german strategy was changed and they started to bomb London. While the bombing was terrible the RAF pilots were still delighted because this gave them the rest they needed to reorganize their forces and in the end defeat the Luftwaffe.

So, a successfully BoB should give the germans true air superiority, how about a successfull BoB removes 2 british fighter and 2 bomber units (destroyed during the battle) which are much later replaced again (6 month ?) My version would free two events (for the TO to appear and later dissapear again) and only the actual trigger for a successfull BoB will remain so these events could be used to a) withdraw the 'army' of 4 air units and the second event will than later on put them back onto the battlefield. (if the UK is still alive by than).

After all, BoB should increase german shipping capacity (the river boats that were converted to act as improvised landing boats) and more importantly gain air superiority by destroying the RAF. Without their air cover an invasion would become much more likely, don't you thinlk ?

And Mark, it's not complicated at all, it's exactly the same princip you use for the german industry, playtests will be needed to determine the number and type (and proficiency) of the aircrafts in the trigger unit (it should be hard to truely destroy them, and only an all out week long german effort should be ablte to do it) and the only change would be to trigger BoB by the destruction of this unit instead of the selecting of a TO.

 

[SkyVon]

Kraut has an excellent idea...remove two ftr units if the Germans win BoB (delay their return till several months after the US enter). Not sure about the logic behind removing bomber units, maybe take out one of them? Should Allied recon be lowered a bit here too? To really think this through (i.e. use more events) if the UK were to lose those ftr's, they would move production/training from bombers to fighters thus those ftr's would be replaced sooner than later and any bombers that are in the pipline would be push back...way back. Thus, a axis win of BoB could remove two ftr units with their return happening 4-6 months later (training) AND remove any buff units that were scheduled to arrive in 1940/early '41 (not sure if there are any at all...Mark?)

As for taking London, I think most players bypass London going for the brass ring...London is a tough city to take and, IMO, not worth the effort.

I also agree with Heat regarding why most players use the BoB TO. I know I use it to get extra shipping in the med and not for taking the UK...have yet to see a player put enough into NA to justify an attack on England. Funny thing is, I've yet to WIN a BoB TO. :hmmm: