In the event that the Axis forces capture Basra and in addition to the extra tanks that Axis forces would received, does the disruption in supply cause the Allied player to have his Indian commonweath units removed from the game? If not, how are Indian and/or other British Commonwealth forces affected in this event (i.e. Australian, New Zealand, Indian, African - all the green units)?
Basra -Axis capture - Allied supply and unit effects?
- Thread starter basil
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Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Allied units already on the map are unaffected, unless they're drawing supply from Basra, in which case they're in trouble. Any new Allied unit scheduled to appear in Basra will just remain queued until it's recaptured. Erm...think of them as waiting in India, etc.
So I can assume the Indian units remaining on the map upon an Axis capture of Basra would stay intact by would not replenish new men/equipment or supply, thus making them quite vulnerable on movement or being attacked, correct? Thanks
Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
No, I'm afraid that the Editor isn't specific enough to factor in just the cutting off of supplies to the Indian units. If they happen to be fighting in the region of Basra they'd suffer the same penalty as any Allied unit for being OOS, but if they're already reached - say - Egypt they'd draw supply from Cairo or Alexandria and fight and be replenished as well as any other Allied unit. If any Indians were scheduled to arrive at Basra they'd be lost (or rather delayed) until the port is recaptured, but that's about as far as it goes. Think of the units as being filled out with other Commonwealth troops and equipment but retaining their designation as "10th Indian" or whatever.
The Editor just isn't sophisticated enough to cover what you're suggesting: it's basically designed for a two-sided game, in this case Axis/Allies. You can do a few tricks to tailor particular situations, but not that.
The Editor just isn't sophisticated enough to cover what you're suggesting: it's basically designed for a two-sided game, in this case Axis/Allies. You can do a few tricks to tailor particular situations, but not that.
OK. I just captured Basra as the Axis in late 1940. No declaration of war against Russia yet. My review of the Axis supply units suggests that the "Tigers" supply depot should release substantial numbers of high proficiency tanks into the Axis pool. However, they have yet to appear. Does this require a DOW against Russia (Barbarossa), is there a time delay of several turns, or some other explanation? I am pretty sure I correctly had the Basra hex referenced for the trigger of these tank reinforcements. Any answers to this question would be appreciated.
Secadegas
Member
Aren't you taking Basra (Iraq) for Baku (USSR)?
No. If you click on the Brandenburger German special forces unit and then the list of other units in that formation, you'll find a reference to a "Tigers" unit that is structured similarly to the supply depots you see listed for capture of Maikop, Grozny and Baku. If you see the hex location reference for this unit, it listed the Basra hex, along with the details about the input to the supply pool of numerous high proficiency Axis tanks (including about 1,000 Tiger 2s and 1,000 Panthers) - which was my reason for taking the hex in the first place (to support a future invasion of Russia). The effects on Indian supply were a secondary consideration only. The problem is that unlike past games where the equipment showed in eligible units a turn or so after capture, I have not seen this yet to be revealed upon check of eligible units (with spaces available for this equipment) within the subsequent 2 turns after capture. I was thinking that there could either be an extended time delay of game turns, a requirement to invade Russia first, or some other consideration I've overlooked. I am also curious as to what triggers the removal of the Iran/Iraq frontier exclusion zone. I had understood that neither of these nations required a theater option being selected to invade. Plus I have entered into Iran through Abadan by sea already with axis units - despite not having invaded Russia yet. Guidance on what the rules intended here would be greatly appreciated 
Secadegas
Member
I'm sorry to disappoint you but when you check Axis Sich Korps OOB list the relevant information is that "Tigers" unit will be released by event 339. As you correctly mentioned this "Tigers" unit is a supply depot, it will be disbanded and it's equipment will show up on Axis inventory and replacements list. So the hex where is programed to show up (in this case Basra) is completely irrelevant because the unit will never show up.
Event 339 says, in short, that aprox. 70 turns after the start of war between Russia and Germany those equipments will be deployed in Axis inventory and replacements list. It's a "timed" trigger and not a geographic trigger. I think you understand now Basra doesn't have any influence over this unit.
It's always the event or the turn that triggers the reinforcements. Never the hex where the reinforcements are going to be deployed. Hope it's clear...
There isn't a proper Iran (Persia)/Iraq frontier exclusion zone. The exclusion zone it's much larger and "divides" Germany from USSR. This big exclusion zone will be lifted when Germay/Russia war is declared (either way). Meanwhile you are specifically allowed by the rules to invade both Iran (Persia) / Iraq by any side phyisically able to do so.
Event 339 says, in short, that aprox. 70 turns after the start of war between Russia and Germany those equipments will be deployed in Axis inventory and replacements list. It's a "timed" trigger and not a geographic trigger. I think you understand now Basra doesn't have any influence over this unit.
It's always the event or the turn that triggers the reinforcements. Never the hex where the reinforcements are going to be deployed. Hope it's clear...
There isn't a proper Iran (Persia)/Iraq frontier exclusion zone. The exclusion zone it's much larger and "divides" Germany from USSR. This big exclusion zone will be lifted when Germay/Russia war is declared (either way). Meanwhile you are specifically allowed by the rules to invade both Iran (Persia) / Iraq by any side phyisically able to do so.
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vodkaferret
Recruit
On a similar note, under a similar heading, and now that the original problem is solved......
my opponent currently is asking me to replay a turn as I captured Basra via sea assault. I sailed in via the hex adjacent to Basra that is NOT the sea supply road. The Allies were under the impression that "Sea Supply Only" on the map meant I could not sail troops along those hexes, so he left Basra undefended for a year while sending every soldier he could to the battle in Egypt. My opponent therefore thinks I made an illegal move.
I just wrote to him to say, in part, "My position is this : I really don't feel I did anything wrong. The
map does not say "no axis landings", and the rules say sea supply
roads cannot be used for road movement (I didn't), and sea assaults
must be launched from adjacent all-sea hexes (I did). So I think I've
followed the rules.
I can understand how you thought differently - the wording on the map
could be better.
But... look at this from my side... I only went to look at Basra cos I
kept killing units in Egypt, then 2 turns later I would briefly see
them heading out from Basra, all reformed and ready to fight again. I
have a theatre option to incite an iraqi uprising (and who says
history never repeats itself!!), I was pissed off with lack of
progress, so I sent an amphibious unit to do a recon, to see if Basra
had loads of units or just a few, to see if I should start an
uprising.
Turns out it had no troops at all, so I sailed in.
My problem is this - units you should have been defending Basra with
have been in Egypt, slowing me down and killing my troops. So if I
walk away from Basra now then the end result is this - you
misunderstood the rules, and as a punishment I've lost troops. That
doesn't seem fair to me. If I've followed the rules then giving up
Basra means you've gained from your mistake and I've lost.
So I really don't feel like I should pay that price for nothing."
******************
I've offered him a deal to withdraw from Basra in exchange for concessions elsewhere.
So my question to you guys on the board - am I right, or am I wrong? I think I'm right but ya never know.....
my opponent currently is asking me to replay a turn as I captured Basra via sea assault. I sailed in via the hex adjacent to Basra that is NOT the sea supply road. The Allies were under the impression that "Sea Supply Only" on the map meant I could not sail troops along those hexes, so he left Basra undefended for a year while sending every soldier he could to the battle in Egypt. My opponent therefore thinks I made an illegal move.
I just wrote to him to say, in part, "My position is this : I really don't feel I did anything wrong. The
map does not say "no axis landings", and the rules say sea supply
roads cannot be used for road movement (I didn't), and sea assaults
must be launched from adjacent all-sea hexes (I did). So I think I've
followed the rules.
I can understand how you thought differently - the wording on the map
could be better.
But... look at this from my side... I only went to look at Basra cos I
kept killing units in Egypt, then 2 turns later I would briefly see
them heading out from Basra, all reformed and ready to fight again. I
have a theatre option to incite an iraqi uprising (and who says
history never repeats itself!!), I was pissed off with lack of
progress, so I sent an amphibious unit to do a recon, to see if Basra
had loads of units or just a few, to see if I should start an
uprising.
Turns out it had no troops at all, so I sailed in.
My problem is this - units you should have been defending Basra with
have been in Egypt, slowing me down and killing my troops. So if I
walk away from Basra now then the end result is this - you
misunderstood the rules, and as a punishment I've lost troops. That
doesn't seem fair to me. If I've followed the rules then giving up
Basra means you've gained from your mistake and I've lost.
So I really don't feel like I should pay that price for nothing."
******************
I've offered him a deal to withdraw from Basra in exchange for concessions elsewhere.
So my question to you guys on the board - am I right, or am I wrong? I think I'm right but ya never know.....
Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
See my reply on the other thread. I think you've been a bit too artful here, although admittedly it doesn't say anywhere that you can't sail an Axis unit into Basra.