barbed wire fences

von Marwitz

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That is not a wire fence, that is wire obstacle, or WIRE in the game.
Randy is right.

The barbed wire fences that are common around here look like this - and most of them have only 3 lines of wire and some even only 2. The usual height is lower than depicted - roughly around the height of the mouth of the cow only.

cow-1714380_960_720.jpg

IMHO the detrimental effect on movement in KGP of these fences is somewhat overrated.

von Marwitz
 

Vinnie

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I feel they shoukd have said:

Barbed wire fences cost 1mf to cross and are not an obstacle or hindrance. They may not be crossed by motorcycles or cwagins/sleigh nor while on skis.
They cost no extra MP to cross but are bog terrain they onky kodier is +1 If not fully tracked +2 If truck type movement.

All the extras are really not worth it in terms of rules overhead.
 

dlazov

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The best part is you can order a full skid for $699, a half skid for $399 and a roll for $25. Great gifts this time of year for those that already have their BOB, and bunker built and stocked.
 

Justiciar

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I feel they shoukd have said:

Barbed wire fences cost 1mf to cross and are not an obstacle or hindrance. They may not be crossed by motorcycles or cwagins/sleigh nor while on skis.
They cost no extra MP to cross but are bog terrain they onky kodier is +1 If not fully tracked +2 If truck type movement.

All the extras are really not worth it in terms of rules overhead.
I know of a Gulf War I tanker who had to drive his tank through wire, and it was not the wire of Dan's post, but taking to jrvs/Von Ms (mix say) it tangled up in his tracks and caused havoc, he as CO, bail take wire cutters and cut it loose under fire from green golf balls...(his wing man drove his tank into deflect the green golf balls) until he cut his tank free... Me thinks even fully tracked get a +1 Bog (you hook wire and the stake/log post up into your track the right way you could throw a track...
 
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Vinnie

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While it can happen, I don't think it would be thst common. Every fence each tank goes through has a 1 in 36 chance of bog. That multiples up yo a 1 in 108 chance of bog leading to mire or immobilization. Given a 4 tank section will cross about 10 of these in KGPthats a pretty good chance someone going to be hung up!
 

dlazov

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There is two types of wire in ASL

Barbed wire which is printed on the map and WIRE which is a fortification.
 

Justiciar

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While it can happen, I don't think it would be thst common. Every fence each tank goes through has a 1 in 36 chance of bog. That multiples up yo a 1 in 108 chance of bog leading to mire or immobilization. Given a 4 tank section will cross about 10 of these in KGPthats a pretty good chance someone going to be hung up!
Yes that is a problem with the ASL system being 2 d 6...which crops up elsewhere at times too. I wonder if players would have in the end tolerated the 'breach' counters which as I recall the footnote does speak to but were never adopted. Perhaps even each player being allotted only so many to use per game [set by SSR] (and only fully-tracked creates them...or infantry). These representing something like effective enough and likewise easily found within the 40 meters. Anyways...my story was just that even 'plain' wire can mess with tanks at times...and just for the record this was no light tank but an M60.
 
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Tater

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Randy is right.

The barbed wire fences that are common around here look like this - and most of them have only 3 lines of wire and some even only 2. The usual height is lower than depicted - roughly around the height of the mouth of the cow only.

View attachment 6417

IMHO the detrimental effect on movement in KGP of these fences is somewhat overrated.

von Marwitz
I don't think so...keep in mind that the troops trying to get through/over these fences have their arms/hands filled with their weapons and also probably a backpack of some size. As a boy growing up in south Alabama I could breeze through/over a fence with hardly a slow down (faster than I can now)...but, I had a lot of practice and I was totally unencumbered by any equipment.

The Bog chance seems reasonable as well, although I think wheeled (as opposed to just "not fully tracked") out to be a higher Bog mod, at least +2 if not +3.
 

Tater

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I know of a Gulf War I tanker who had to drive his tank through wire, and it was not the wire of Dan's post, but taking to jrvs/Von Ms (mix say) it tangled up in his tracks and caused havoc, he as CO, bail take wire cutters and cut it loose under fire from green golf balls...(his wing man drove his tank into deflect the green golf balls) until he cut his tank free... Me thinks even fully tracked get a +1 Bog (you hook wire and the stake/log post up into your track the right way you could throw a track...
While it can happen, I don't think it would be thst common. Every fence each tank goes through has a 1 in 36 chance of bog. That multiples up yo a 1 in 108 chance of bog leading to mire or immobilization. Given a 4 tank section will cross about 10 of these in KGPthats a pretty good chance someone going to be hung up!
I agree for fully tracked. But HT and non-tracked it is reasonable. For fully tracked I think a stall "type" roll would be better...a boxcar and you roll a subsequent dr6 which equals the number of MP lost. Having a Panther bog and then immobilize due to a flimsy barbed wire fence seems vastly extreme and puts the fence almost on par with "wire" fortifications...particularly since a fully tracked vehicle that passes the "wire" bog eliminates said "wire" where as the fence never goes away.
 

Justiciar

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Yes, I think stall type is another way to go...though I would prefer LT, MT and HT be handled separately...so on an LT for EX after the boxcar dr 1-3 ok, 4-5 is the stall, 6, is bog...MT 1-4 ok, 5 stall, 6 is bog...HT 1-5 is ok, 6 bog. In any case moot point...
 
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